The State of the Union

by Marvin Shilmer 142 Replies latest jw friends

bluesapphire

Email:
I KNOW that if you... or your husband could afford all of these things that you so much ENVY we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Believe me I'm not envious at this man. He is miserable. And my life priorities are much much different than his are. I have righteous indignation that he is rich through sheer exploitation -- that the reason he can afford those luxuries is because he steals money from his employees -- hard working men who also deserve to have luxuries.
Sheesh! I must suck at communicating because I have repeated this same thing over and over. Do you exploit people too? Is that why you have to accuse me of envy because you don't want to look in the mirror?
RandomTask

In addition he cheats on his taxes by writing off items that he is forcing the employees to pay for

You can't report him for this? I mean this is illegal, isn't it?
If people are breaking labor laws then there are concequences, if they aren't then its perfectly legal and I don't see it as exploitation. I see it that your husband is in a lesser position and his boss, who has developed a company, is employing him. Such is the order of things. Your husband has the opportunity to change his situation and he is doing that, well all power to him! Good for him! Thats what people do when they don't like the situation they are in. Really, if the guy was cheating on his taxes then I don't see how he could get away from it for long and if you had proof you would report him right? But if you aren't doing that then don't complain to me that he has all kinds of money, its his right, just as its your right to make more money than I do.
I have righteous indignation that he is rich through sheer exploitation -- that the reason he can afford those luxuries is because he steals money from his employees
I don't know, sounds like sour grapes to me. I mean show me how he steals from his employees! If you have proof then report him, its illegal you know! And if you don't have proof then you just make yourself out to look even more foolish.
Edited by - RandomTask on 30 January 2003 0:42:47
email

Blue...
You said:
Believe me I'm not envious at this man
But then you went on to say:
hard working men who also deserve to have luxuries
I don't think I'm following you here... It seems a little contradictory to me!... that's just MHO
Edited by - email on 30 January 2003 0:48:16
4horsemen

BlueSapphire,
I empathize with "comp time" This concept is a total fabrication. When my Dad got into management after he worked his way up through the blue collar ranks his boss put him on comp time. We both know how often he took it. When I started 7th grade school started at 7:05 am. He was already gone and did not get home til after 6pm. Whereupon he promptly fell asleep on the couch.
BUT... this is reality.
Who really work 8 hours? Nobody. 10+ hrs/day are the norm. Again, I try not to fight reality.
That said indulge me as I provide 2 object lessons.
1) There is a large gentleman who plays professional basketball for the Los Angeles Lakers. His name is Shaq O'neal. An old, "rich" fart named Jerry Buss owns the Los Angeles Lakers. Mr Buss pays Shaq $20,000,000 a year to play basketball. Imagine that.
But guess what. Mr Buss is "exploiting" Shaq. Im certain either you dont care or feel bad for Shaq being exploited like that. But think about it. Why would Mr Buss pay Shaq 20 mil when he could just as easily put that 20 mil in T-bills, 30 yr bonds, corporate bonds of companies like Ford, or GE and earn 2-10%? RISK FREE. Or alot less riskier than taking a chance Shaq blows out his knee.
The only reason Mr Buss would do that is because he expects to earn more on Shaq's production than what he pays in Shaq's salary. Plus of course hefty tax considerations. Think about it: Shaquille O' Neal is nothing more than a $20,000,000 cog. Mr Buss is "stealing" from him at least 2 million a year (what he would make in bonds)
ALL employers "exploit" their employees. They have to. If they did not they'd be OUT of business. Have you ever run a business with employees? Lots of costs employees dont see: Workmen's comp, insurance, accountants, legal fees, retirement funding, lawsuits, state and federal regulations, OSHA, EEOC, bonds, licenses, capital goods. Your husbands boss probably makes less than you think and he's probably up to his eyeballs in debt trying to keep up with the Jones' by buying all those "expensive things"
2) Dont be so eager to regulate people's behavior. For example, in California Governor Davis plans to tack on $1.10 per pack of cigs to help bail him out of his budget mismanagement.
"Right on! Everyone knows cigs kill people. While your at it, increase the tax on booze, gambling and porn. Keep on cranking up those "sin" taxes," people might say
But you better hope your neighbors keep on sinning because if they dont, they'll be coming after your "sins" next. Hypothetically speaking they might say that 4 kids for a couple making 80k/year isnt "fair" to the kids. There quality of life will be lacking. Heaven forbid they go to a state University. They might even pull a China on you, limiting people to ONE kid. Do you really want such a paternalistic mind set determining what is and is not "good" for you? Then dont be so quick to take the spark plugs out of your husbands boss mercedes.
Besides, Chrysler makes Mercedes now. Not what they were in terms of quality even 5 years ago. He overpaid :)
Realist

scarlet,
have you ever been to europe?
where do you get the notion from that europeans are less eager to get rich because of taxes?
also the taxes are not just redistributed to the poor to provide financial support, good schools etc....they are also put into a better infrastructure for instance.
again...the US is great for clever and strong people...it is not good for not so gifted people.
the US has far more poor people than many memebers of the EU (Germany, Scandinavia, Austria, Netherlands, at least the north of italy, france, + [switzerland]).
socialism (controlled capitalism) is certainly better for the average person than US capitalism.
about the health system...yes if you want to go to a specialist you have to wait a week or two...depending on how well known the doctor is.
however in an emergency situation you get immediate treatment....in contrast a friend of mine lost her baby while she was pregnant...she had to wait 5 hours in the hospital until the doctors talked to her. this would not happen in europe.
Farkel,
can you throw in some arguments?
Edited by - realist on 30 January 2003 6:42:22
Yerusalyim

Realist,
The church tax is only 1%? Still too much, I'll take your word that this figure is correct just as I took Franz's word when he told me it was 7%. Who knows? All I know is that any tax collected directly for a church is just silly.
Bush is a puppet? Of whom, show some proof.
Emiliano,
Why should I believe ANYTHING taken from a GreenPeace web site. GEEZ!
When Sec Powell goes to the UN and presents a tiny portion of the evidence the US has, the bar will once again be raised by the liberal antiwar nuts. Funny that eight nations in Europe are encouraging Germany and France to back Europe.
Reports are out today that the French President is receiving money directly from Iraq. Be interesting to see if this proves true. It will be MORE interesting to see what the paper trail we find in Iraq after the fighting says about the French government's involvement in selling Iraq the means to produce WMD.
layla

Bluesapphire:
When have you met a boss that makes less money than the employees?????
THE BOTTOM LINE IS:
You hate your husband's boss bc he is RICHER than you are......He has the Mercedes Benz that you want.....the yacht and the million dollar mansion you don't have.....
Just BE HAPPY with your life and DEAL with it.

Edited by - layla on 30 January 2003 9:39:48
Realist

holy cow!!! yeru you are right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they pay between 7 and 9% church tax!!! thats insane!!!!!!!! i thought they have the same system as in my country.
about bush...the president always has to do what he promised the lobbies that support him. bush doesn't write his speeches...he doesn't make the plans etc. he does what the people around him tell him to do.
Edited by - realist on 30 January 2003 10:49:41
Yerusalyim

about bush...the president always has to do what he promised the lobbies that support him. bush doesn't write his speeches...he doesn't make the plans etc. he does what the people around him tell him to do.

Well, ALL presidents have handlers. No, they don't write their own speeches, they haven't for better than 100 years. They do, normally, give input and take part in the re-write. Bush, like all presidents, has final approval of the speeches he gives.
Most presidents give a part of what they promise to lobbiests. I've never seen one do it all.
I was hoping you were right about the 1% church tax in Germany, but my buddy Franz said it was 7%. That's just gross and disgusting.
Perry

Emiliano,
You been drinking from that fountain of anti-american hate that bubbles forth at the DNC headquarters? Hell, I thought we disconnected the damn thing in the last mid-term elections!
Tell me how many countries are under the US colonialism. Just about all the third world. All these countries feel threatened. This question should be addressed not only to ourselves but to others in this world community.
Earth to Emiliano.....Come in Emiliano. Damnit, quit picking daisies and pay attention. The United States was formed as a rejection of European colonialism. (Gasp) Yes, your leftist protagonist proselytizers told you a lie. Don't fear we still have some history books written before the Clintonian era.
The US having nukes is viewed as more of a threat to other third world countries than Saddam having them.
Only to the far left silly. And they know that is utter bullshit. But, it furthers their agenda to change America into a reflection of Walden II. ....so what the hell.
What is the prurpose of having all these weapons if not to be viewed as a threat?
Could it be national security? A force of deterrence for international terrorism? For God's sake man.... those weapons ended the cold war without ever firing a shot? Please ask the NEW EUROPE (read: the former members of the soviet bloc of nations) and not the OLD EUROPE (read: France & Germany) if they are afraid of American might? They will laugh in your face and know you are just another clueless american suffering from the effects of a phobic religion that left you vulnerable to the anti-american peaceniks.
My girlfriends' mother is in the military of the Czech Republic. They love us over there. There intelligence has helped establish the link between IraQ and Al Queda. They and many others are squarely on our side.
I rent an apartment several hundred miles on the interior of China. The Chinese people are fascinated with America. They want our friendship and our competition. They want to be better than us not by destroying us but by out doing us. They are really starting to play by the rules and their economy is busting at the seams.
The U S has the most so they are the most threatening.
Please go preach your anti-american hate to other losers that don't have a clue what living under a real threating regime is like.

The State of the Union

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