EXACTLY Why JW's Are NOT Christian

by Perry 63 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Perry

  You are cherry picking Scriptures to support your position as to what was most important to Jesus, just as JWs do.

  JWfacts,

  You don't like his words because his words are truth. They are facts. Facts that you cannot change no matter how hard you wish to change them. It is ridiculous for you to make a distinction between a Christian and a follower of Jesus. Jesus is qualified to state what constitutes a follower. It is silly to suggest otherwise.

  In order to be a disciple of Jesus (Christian) a person has to get to the point where they give it all up....ALL OF IT.

  The Romans were very practical people. They required a small percentage to pay for their war machine that they mastered through discipline. In exchange for the tax, they provided an army that the locals could never manufacture on their own to buffet marauding bands, dictator hopefuls and even strong common criminals. It is against this backdrop of practicality that Jesus stated his terms for peace with God.

  
  

  Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
  32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an envoy and desireth conditions of peace.
  33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be My disciple.

  And this is what it is going to take for you or I or anyone else to be born again and avoid judgment. Infant baptism, cow-towing to the Pope or the Governing Body of JW's or the Mormon Priesthood or any other supposed method of getting right with God.

  Jesus made it clear that the cost of his protection wasn't a percentage of your production like the Romans. It was ALL OF IT.

  And in exchange for that, a person receives not just a service, but sonship. Sonship into a royal family that already owns everything that there is to own. And since the family already owns everything, works are not primary. Stewardship determines position because a person cannot work for something they already own.

  And it all starts with a contract, the one JW's deny and reject each memorial.
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  jwfacts

  You don't like his words because his words are truth.
  

  Perry you are totally missing the point. I didn't say I didn't like his words. My point is you cannot say JWs are not Christian on the basis that they have a different interpretation of the New Covenant than you. They do not reject it, they just interpret the manner in which it works differently than you do.

  There is no benefit in people making ignorant claims that JWs are not Christian. It helps no one. They follow Christ, according to their understanding of his requirements, more diligently than most Christians. JWs need to be helped leave by showing them accurate information about how they are being controlled and misled, not by making outlandish statements that they will instantly dismiss as wrong and put them on the offensive.

  
  
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  Ucantnome

  jwfacts do you think that the difference between how you view JW Christianity and how Perry views it has to do with how you both may view judgement day differently?

  when I first joined this forum. I felt concern regarding people I knew who were/are JW and their Christianity and had similar views to Perry

  now i don't give a fig
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  jwfacts

  Ucantnome - excellent point. My concern is with helping JWs leave. It seems Perry would like to encourage the additional step of joining his way of thinking about Christ and judgement day.

  
  

  I see doctrinal debates as pointless. It reminds me of when I would go toe to toe with Born Again Christians over doctrine, when now I have stepped back I can see both of them as cut from the same cloth. Fundamentalists that are controlled by the undue influence of their human leadership.

  
  
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  LoveUniHateExams

  I see doctrinal debates as pointless - totally agree.

  People will usually believe what they want to believe. Plus, there is no empirical evidence for any doctrine.

  It's like arguing about the colour of unicorns - a complete waste of time.
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  Ucantnome

  'My concern is with helping JWs leave.'

  jwfacts do you feel everyone should leave?

  When i was a witness i always avoided born again christians.
  

  'when now I have stepped back I can see both of them as cut from the same cloth. Fundamentalists that are controlled by the undue influence of their human leadership.'

  I spoke to a theologian who felt that atheists and fundamentalists are two sides of the same coin. I suppose we all have our own views.

  
  

  I have found myself almost encouraging some to stay witnesses, as you say they try to be christian however at times I feel like Perry says they are not christian as I would define one but I can't judge. I wouldn't want to encourage anyone to lose their faith.

  
  
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  Lieu

  Yuk to this thread! Why do crazy religious types always want to say they are right and everyone else is wrong? I had enough of that crap already. Sounds like someone is looking for new church members ...

  Anyhow, JWs problem stems from not understanding that the "other sheep" to whom Jesus referred were the Gentiles. These too he had to bring into his "fold". He didn't say a dayum thing about them having differing futures.
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  OnTheWayOut

  Perry, you left out the word "true."
  Your title should be "EXACTLY Why JW's are Not True Christian"

  Then perhaps you can see how narrow-minded you are being with some "true Scotsman" examples:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

  No true Scotsman is an informal fallacy, an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion. When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim ("no Scotsman would do such a thing"), rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule ("no true Scotsman would do such a thing").

  No True Scotsman (NTS) is a logical fallacy that occurs when (1) someone changes the definition of a word to make a claim true by default or (2) a term is defined biasedly to allow easier use of the first form. Instead of acknowledging that some members of a group have undesirable characteristics, the fallacy tries to redefine the group to exclude them.
  
  
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  jwfacts

  Ucantnome11 hours ago

  'My concern is with helping JWs leave.'

  jwfacts do you feel everyone should leave?

  No. Many would be worse off if they left, particularly older ones with no one to care for them. I would not like my mother to leave at her age. My activism has two goals:

  1. help those that are suffering within the organisation leave
  2. push the organisation to change, so that those in and out of it are not as badly affected.

  The global media and legal attention that Watchtower is getting is helping with point 2, forcing them to change rules on blood and child abuse. Hopefully shunning will eventually be removed as well.

  
  

  I guess for a fundamentalist Christian that believes following their specific form of Christianity is essential for salvation, then it is essential for every JW to leave and convert to their fundamentalist viewpoint. I find such a concept simply offensive.
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  Village Idiot

  So Perry, do you believe that Catholicism is Christian? There's more of them than JWs and Mormons combined.