Ky. Bill to Repeal Clergy "Silent Right"

by Kenneson 82 Replies latest jw friends

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  siegswife

  Yerusalim, I'm curious about something. What benefit is confession if the person can't receive absolution?

  You made the comment earlier that absolution should be withheld if the person who commits a crime doesn't turn themselves in. So where is the benefit or sanctity of a confession that has no other outcome other than to make another person aware of a crime?

  You said that they could be counselled to turn themselves in...but what is the benefit of such counsel if it's not taken? What good comes from a confession that doesn't result in absolution but does result in another person doing nothing to see that justice is served?
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  Trauma_Hound

  Yeru, you going to answer?
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Could NOT answer because of this confounded 20 post limit. This agruement about "What if a religion taught murder" doesn't hold water because the Catholic Church DOES NOT teach pedophilia. Sorry guys losing arguement.

  What benefit does someone receive from confession if they don't receive absolution? The counsel to turn themselves in, which should be given (that's what their taught in priest school).

  Why have military chaplain's Trauma? Easy answer, to ensure that SOLDIERS can exercise their right of freedom of religion. The whole military chaplaincy was challenged constitutionally back in the mid 80's. The Supreme Court smacked around the guys who brought the case. Military chaplains do NOT violate the "seperation" of church and state (a phrase never found in the constitution).

  Sorry, I guess we'll all continue to disagree on this issue, but this clergy penitent privelege has been challenged in the past. It's an erosion of the right to free exercise of religion. I should think that all our liberals would be in favor of that...Oh, wait, that's right, these rights they preach about are never extended to religion.

  Edited to add the word NOT in the first sentence.

  Edited by - Yerusalyim on 16 January 2003 10:1:2
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  ashitaka

  Confession sacred? Kids' safety and justice are more important than the idea of absolution. I'm sure if you were in the position of a parent of the abused your views would change dramatically.

  ash
• 

  siegswife

  I should think that all our liberals would be in favor of that...Oh, wait, that's right, these rights they preach about are never extended to religion.

  Jesus was a liberal.
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Ash,

  As a victim of abuse, I'm still oppossed to this whole concept of reporting what went on in the confessional. IF this passes, then NO sacramental confession will be sacred.

  Seig,

  Jesus was a radical, but not a liberal. He tightened up the law rather than loosened it. With Jesus even looking at a woman with lust was the same as committing adultery. Radical yes, liberal, NO!
• 

  siegswife

  Yerusalym, You said that the benefit of confession without absolution is the counsel the criminal receives to turn themselves in.

  Don't you think that person already knows that they should turn themselves in? Don't they already know they committed a crime and that they have something to answer for? Why else would they go to confession?

  What is the benfit of counseling someone to do something that they already know should be done, especially when that counsel isn't taken? You really haven't answered my question.

  On the subject of liberals, what makes you think that a liberal couldn't/wouldn't believe that lusting after someone other than their marriage partner isn't wrong? That seems to be what you're implying.

  Jesus was against the fundamentalists of his day, was against dogmatic application of law that didn't serve justice and left many in the lurch. After his death his followers set up and lived in a somewhat communistic community. What say you?
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  Yerusalyim

  Sieg,

  Maybe it's Bill Clinton that makes me think liberals wouldn't see lust as a sin.

  What is the benefit of someone being counseled to turn themself in? Sometimes people need encouragement to do what they know is right. On the other hand, if this law is passed, the pedophiles just stop going to confession. So what does the Law help?
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  siegswife

  It wouldn't really change a thing, other than protecting the priest from partaking in a travesty of justice. Do you really think that God looks kindly on someone who knows about such horrendous crime and does nothing about it?

  The way it is now, nothing is really accomplished by confession anyway. No absolution, no involvement of the secular authorities, no justice for the victim.

  edited because I can't spell

  Edited by - siegswife on 16 January 2003 14:43:25

  Edited by - siegswife on 16 January 2003 14:44:17
• 

  UnDisfellowshipped

  Yerusalyim,

  You seem to be majorly avoiding the questions I asked.

  You said:
  

  This agruement about "What if a religion taught murder" doesn't hold water because the Catholic Church DOES NOT teach pedophilia.

  SO WHAT? Are you saying that the First Amendment is ONLY SUPPOSED to protect what the CATHOLIC CHURCH Teaches?

  No where in my questions above did I even imply that the Catholic Church taught those things.

  Should the First Amendment protect Muslim Extremists (in the USA) who teach that their followers must perpetrate TERRORIST ACTS inside the United States?

  That is a "Yes" or "No" question.