Ky. Bill to Repeal Clergy "Silent Right"

by Kenneson 82 Replies latest jw friends

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  Trauma_Hound

  The constitutional issues are freedom of religion, the right against self incrimination, the Miranda issues, etc etc etc

  Where does the constitution say that the clergy have the right to impede criminal investigations? The right to self incrimination has nothing to do with this, since if they go to the authorities, they wouldn't be incriminating themselves, what does this have to do with miranda rights?

  The clergy penitent privelege has some pretty ancient roots. Not a few priests died because they refused to reveal the confession of the political opponent of one monarch or another. IF what is proposed is approved one possible outcome is that pedophiles AND other sinners as well won't go to confession. Then they lose the counsel given, which is to turn themselves in in many cases.

  6 Million Europeans died, because of the catholic churches policy of killing those that had a different faith, should we allow drug use, since that was part of many ancient faiths? They should seek a pchycologist, not a priest. Obviously turning themselves in hasn't been the norm lately, or you wouldn't see the catholic church, and JW's under fire.
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  Trauma Hound said:
  

  Where does the constitution say that the clergy have the right to impede criminal investigations?

  Yes, I want to see where it is written also.

  I also want to see where it is written in the Bible.

  See Romans Chapter 13, Matthew 18:6.
• 

  Yerusalyim

  In the constitution, it's the 1st amendment, this infringes on the free exercise of religion. What you don't seem to acknowledge or care about is that IT WON'T stop HERE. If this law is passed NOTHING said in confession will be sacrosanct.

  The bible is silent about the secrecy of the confessional.

  Trauma, before you start quoting figures about people killed for religion VERIFY them. Less than 3000 were killed in the Spanish Inquisition, so I'm still trying to figure out where you are getting the "6 million" figure from.

  Trauma,

  You're agenda isn't protecting kids, its an all out assault on religion. You do the kids a terrible dis-service with your hatred.
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  What Yerusalyim just said shows absolutely that the Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses are allowing perverted pedophiles to molest and rape children for a completely Non-Biblical reason:

  The bible is silent about the secrecy of the confessional.

  That says it all.
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  Yerusalyim said:
  

  If this law is passed NOTHING said in confession will be sacrosanct

  Hmmm, I could have sworn this Law is only for child abuse confessions.

  Isn't this Law already in effect in several States?

  And besides, confessors shouldn't be that worried, unless they are confessing about serious crimes.

  The Catholic Confessions are not even Biblical or Christian.

  Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 14 January 2003 23:5:10
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Undisfellowshipped,

  Isn't this Law already in effect in several States?

  No, there are no laws that I am aware of compelling a priest to reveal anything learned by a sacramental confession. Were the priest to do so, regardless of the law, he would receive an automatic excommunication.

  Hmmm, I could have sworn this Law is only for child abuse confessions.

  And so begins the slippery slope, later it can (and will) include any and all crimes, murder rape robbery running red lights. All that will be served by a law of this nature is the destruction of religion.

  And besides, confessors shouldn't be that worried, unless they are confessing about serious crimes.

  Someone confessing a sin in a sacramental setting shouldn't have to worry regardless of how serious it is.

  The Catholic Confessions are not even Biblical or Christian.

  Please refer to the gospel of John 20:23
• 

  Realist

  question:

  isn't it already obligatory for the clergy to report abuse cases in some but not all US states?
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Realist,

  To the best of my knowledge sacramental confession is exempted from this. if someone can show me different, please do.
• 

  Trauma_Hound

  In the constitution, it's the 1st amendment, this infringes on the free exercise of religion. What you don't seem to acknowledge or care about is that IT WON'T stop HERE. If this law is passed NOTHING said in confession will be sacrosanct.

  So if your religion called for executions, would that be ok then? Get real, they can practice all the religion they want, as long as they follow secular laws.

  The bible is silent about the secrecy of the confessional.

  Ya, I know, you just punched another hole in your own argument, since the bible says nothing about this, then this law would not violate the 1st amendment.

  Trauma, before you start quoting figures about people killed for religion VERIFY them. Less than 3000 were killed in the Spanish Inquisition, so I'm still trying to figure out where you are getting the "6 million" figure from.

  I said nothing about the Spanish Inquisition, it was called the burning times, when they killed 'witches', the majority of the spanish inquisition were now so called 'witches'.

  Trauma,

  You're agenda isn't protecting kids, its an all out assault on religion. You do the kids a terrible dis-service with your hatred.

  How do you know what my agenda is assclown? You don't know what your talking about, I'm not apart of any orginsation, calling for the demise of religions, so your statment is idiotic at best. However your more interested in protecting pedophiles, then helping children. I'm sure your prospective would be different, say if your children had been raped, I've had 6 cousins and my sister molested by my JW uncle, so screw you!
• 

  Yerusalyim

  So if your religion called for executions, would that be ok then? Get real, they can practice all the religion they want, as long as they follow secular laws.

  My religion doesn't call for executions. It does honor the bond between the penitent and clergy. Thus far US law has also honored this sacred bond.

  Ya, I know, you just punched another hole in your own argument, since the bible says nothing about this, then this law would not violate the 1st amendment.

  The 1st amendment mentions nothing whatsoever about only protecting religious freedom as enumerated in the bible. Islam ain't even found in the bible, yet it's tenents are protected.

  I said nothing about the Spanish Inquisition, it was called the burning times, when they killed 'witches', the majority of the spanish inquisition were now so called 'witches'.

  First, this whole discussion of what took place in Europe hundreds of years ago is silly, second, check your figures again. The HIGHEST estimate I heard was 300,000, and I kind of doubt that figure.

  How do you know what my agenda is assclown? You don't know what your talking about, I'm not apart of any orginsation, calling for the demise of religions, so your statment is idiotic at best. However your more interested in protecting pedophiles, then helping children. I'm sure your prospective would be different, say if your children had been raped, I've had 6 cousins and my sister molested by my JW uncle, so screw you!

  My credentials in this discussion is my own molestation. You've made your agenda perfectly clear on this board, you hate all organized religion. Just because you're not part of any type of organization doesn't mean you don't have an agenda. I have ZERO interest in protecting pedophiles, I do, however, have an interest in protecting religious freedom. Again, my problem with the Society and the Catholic Church is NOT when the perp confessed in a "sacramental" setting and wasn't reported. My problem with both the Catholic Church, the Society, and any other organization is that they haven't reported when the VICTIMS or their families reported. Lets address THAT issue first!

  As to your offer to screw me, no thanks, I don't get down like that!