UK Gun Laws: Possession = 5 Years Imprisonment.

by Englishman 72 Replies latest jw friends

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    These discussions always degenerate, as they are accross a cultural divide so wide often it's hard to understand what the people on the other side are saying.

    In England, as with the most of Western Europe, murder rates are low, there is no death penalty, private gun ownership is almost impossible (to put it into perspective 0.007% of crime in the UK involves a gun) , we have reasonable personal freedoms, we haven't any fear of the government shooting us down in the streets or cancelling elections, there are very few 'no-go areas' even in the largest cities, and we haven't been properly invaded for 937 years.

    Now, if you grow up in the States, you have a high murder rate, you have the death penalty, private gun ownership is comparatively easy, you have reasonable personal freedoms, you've had unarmed students shot in the streets by soldiers within the past thirty years, the last election would have been declared null and void if the UN had been monitoring it, most major cities have 'no-go' areas, and you've had your Capital City burnt by invaders in the past two hundred years.

    Thus, to an American it can seem obvious that if you got rid of the death penalty, murder rates would rise, that you need guns, as there are too many in public circulation to ever control (and if you DID try to collect them door-to-door with the US Army, then the NRA would come from joy, shouting 'I told you so!'), you cannot trust your government, poor areas of your cities resemble war zones, and you never know when those damn Brits will try something again.

    Some of those opinions are quite reasonable; in the US, the horse has bolted and bred, and there never was a stable door in the first place. Rather than try to control guns, it would probably be better if you make them compulsory. That way at least it would be fair. But the fact the entirity of Eastern Europe overthrew totalitarian government WITHOUT GUNS makes the 'we need it in case the government are nasty' argument is a crock, as is the death penalty detering violent crime. Please don't mention the Ammendment to the COstitution that allows you to bear arms. It is an Ammendment, i.e. a change. Just as Ammendments relating to sexualy and racial equality were introduced as society changed, so it is equally possible that some Ammendments have a sell-by date. In the UK, as we have few guns and few gun problems the logic is obvious, to us, and judicial killings are just barbaric, as it impossible to avoid killing innocent people in a judicial process that includes execution, and it doesn't really put people off commiting crimes anyway.

    Thus, culturally, it's quite possible to disagree with someone in this arguement and for you both to be equally right, as we are moralising on another culture, and morals don't always work when you use one culture morals to analise anothers.

    One of the chief factor relating to gun violence is, rather obviously, drugs. You cannot eliminate drugs, but you can eliminate the mechanisms that make drug users use violence to get hold of money, or to control the supply of drugs, or to compete with other suppliers. However, it is far more acceptable to the average person to put up with the diet of drive-by shootings on the news than it is to consider decriminalising drugs, as, despite evidence to the contrary, making drugs legally available at fair prices is too damn scarey as people mistakenly think it would make things worse.

  • Trauma_Hound
    Trauma_Hound

    I think drugs should be de-criminalized also, nobody looks at history, when alcohol prohibition was in affect, the murder rate went up 10 fold, when they got rid of it, it went down. The reason, is because organised crime got involved. These anti-drug laws, only benifit drug king-pins, certaintly not the average citizen. It's a simple formula drugs=illegal=organised crime, drugs=legal=more tax money. I think there should be a system of education, not elimination, the "war on drugs" has been lost, give up, regroup, and get on with life. Abaddon and anyone else, I ask you this, if you and your family are standing there, being attacked by a mad terrorist/gang rapist/murder, would you rather A. Have a law that says you can't have a gun to protect yourself, or B. Own a gun, and be able to protect yourself? I tell you this, growing up in areas that I did, there was a joke, to get the police to come out faster, you told them, you had a gun, and if they didn't get out there quickly there might be a dead intruder.

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    As a woman living in the UK, I know that I would feel much safer owning a gun. Fe203grl indicated that she doesn't really feel threatened in her home. Well I do. We hear of people being raped in their homes quite frequently.

    Criminals will own guns, no matter what the laws are. They own them for a purpose and perhaps this new law will stop them carrying them ALL the time....however, when they're planning a crime, they'll take the chance and carry the gun. I live in a small town and the local post office has been subject to armed robbery twice - and the shop that is 300yrds away from my house was robbed just recently (the staff were so scared they refused to work evenings again so the owner has been forced to close his shop at 6pm every night when it used to be open until 10pm).

    When I walk down the street in the dark (its dark when I leave work in winter) I am very often nervous. I'm aware of any person who is walking down the same street and I find myself getting "prepared" in case they try anything.

    I think that provided the gun licensing laws were very strict and there were waiting times for ownership, people in the UK should have the right to own a firearm. Admittedly, it does make it easier to kill someone - for instance in domestic violence situations - but with education from a young age and with tight controls on who owns a gun this could be minimised. I think that if you are going to kill, you will anyway. It is relatively easy for an angry husband to kill his wife, or vice versa. In this town recently a man bled to death after a fight with his wife.

    I often ponder on the morality question of whether these lethal weapons *should* exist. The fact is, they do, and controlling their use is the key.

    Sirona

  • Realist
    Realist

    i would say it is a fatal mistake to assume a gun would protect you. in an assault you don't have the time to get the weapon...hence it is useless anyway. the only possible outcome is that the intruder shoots you first.

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Sirona,

    Always keep a bunch of keys in your hand when you're out at night on your own. If you put your forefinger through the key-ring so that they hang loose, they make a formidable slashing weapon if applied selectively to an assailants fizzog.

    Englishman.

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Thanks for the tip, Eman. I'm actually intending getting one of those noisy alarm things - and some spray stuff. I'd feel safer at home (on nights when I'm alone).

    Sirona

  • Fe2O3Girl
    Fe2O3Girl

    I know that people get attacked in their homes, but in reality, what is the frequency that people are attacked by complete strangers? Are not most victims of assault, rape, murder known to their attackers? Sirona, I take on board your example of raids on shops, post offices, filling stations - this has happened at the Post Office in my tiny village, but I don't work in one!

    Proliferation of firearms would not make me feel safer in my own home.

    With regard to the US - I do not believe it is possible to change the history and culture there, and judging by most of the posters from the US who have commented, they like it the way it is, anyway. And I like it the way it is here.

  • TD
    TD

    While reading through this thread I got to thinking about the time three of us (my two brothers-in-law and myself) camping along the San Carlos Indian reservation were attacked by a pack of half-starved feral dogs. We killed about half of them, which was not enough by half.

    Does this sort of thing happen in England? When you're cooking outdoors, do you ever have to worry about what might be attracted by the smell of your fire?

    Just curious

    Tom

  • Fe2O3Girl
    Fe2O3Girl

    Hi Tom

    The UK is a very old country. Anything remotely dangerous has been hunted to extinction centuries ago. There is no wildlife big enough to worry about when cooking outdoors.

    However, the sheep on Kinder Scout (Derbyshire) are very pushy, and will try to nab you sandwiches if you aren't careful..............

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Kinder Scout rings a bell with me. Many years back, I walked part of the Pennine way, I'm sure that this is on the route.

    Englishman.

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