Discussing the RC with a friend and my JW wife was listening.
Remind her of her submissive position to you the HEAD......shes not behaving in this instance like a good dubbie.
I feel for you. Seeing the fruitages of the cult never gets easy. It creates a huge void in a relationship. The most nauseating part is how just by you thinking differently than them and being so horrible to express your thinking, you are persecuting them and victimizing them. When they are screaming at you. Trying to censor you. Trying to shun you. And you are pinned as the persecutor. Sorry my friend.
I totally agree with what you say.
I have read Steve Hassans' book and it helped me tremendously. As for children, I have one child she is 15 years old. I have worked out a strategy with my counselor how to manage her not getting overly involved with this cult. The most important advice I was given was to not draw her into a "loyalty conflict". So she goes along with her mother to the meetings etc. She is not baptized nor is she a publisher.
One sad thing for me is that I am over 50 now, and when I was a young man, before I got involved with this evil sect, I wanted to have a family with 3 or more children, I gave that dream up for the sect. It is too late for that now, I consider it to be unfair on a child to father children knowing that by the time they are 20 I will be over 70.
I do appreciate your concern.
She never has.
You summed it up, thanks.
However, just this morning, she was making breakfast and she seemed in a good mood, so I raised it again. I said did you know Geoffrey Jackson ...one of the GB was questioned by the commission for over 2 hours.
Well, I couldn't believe it, we ended up having a great discussion over it. To appease her to begin with....I said to be fair, he did hold his ground quite well bringing out the scriptures; BUT was caught out a number of times. She asked like what? I said well you have to remember, these lawyers a the RC have razor sharp minds and they are really on the ball about things. I mentioned how the 2 witness rule was brought up and Jackson showed what Jesus said in Matthew about this. But then Angus Stewart (who I have to say was brilliant) said that Jesus would have been referring back to the mosaic law In the book of Deuteronomy. and that Jackson agreed. Then....unbelievably Angus Stewart asked Jackson to read a portion of scripture about if a woman was raped in a field and no one heard her screams. That the person who raped her would be put to death. The point being that it was her word and 'circumstantial evidence' because obviously there was no other witness; therefore the man was judged on this alone. My wife totally saw this point and agreed with me.
I then explained, so if a 15 year old girl goes to the elders clearly traumatized having told them her father had abused her and the elders could clearly see the girl was telling the truth...and that they had other circumstantial evidence in the face of the father was lying, that they could then make judgement on the matter. My wife again agreed.
I then said that justice McClellan then asked Jackson....supposing she doesn't want to go to the police. What would you do? Clearly, Jackson didn't give a clear concise answer to that question and tried to dodge it at one point.
This again created further discussion and she said something to the effect that the elders couldn't do anything!
I however mentioned what I would do in line with my experience in social care work, that one of the things they should do, not only to protect the girl, but also the congregation and public at large was to at least get some kind of background check on the guy at the very least. Also, if as per what the elders were saying at the commission, they had no doubt that BCG was telling the truth about her abuse, they should have supported her to go to the police or contact them to say they had deep concerns so that the matter could be investigated further by professionals who know how to deal with such situations.
My wife completely agreed with me. I said to her. The society/organization NEED to make changes. She again agreed. Note: my wife likes to gossip btw. It will be interesting if she brings up the subject amongst her very large group of friends :-)
i know where you are coming from. We just finished a 3 week long arguement. Mostly with silence in between fights.
she knows how i feel about the cult. i have told her i don't care what she believes and i won't stop her from going out in service and to the meetings. i go with her to the meetings just to keep the calm....i really have become apathetic and don't care much about religion. this cult has ruined any spirituality i have.
Our son's hate going to the meetings and go out in service because she make them....i have pointed out so many facts about the cult to her. but she goes into cult mode. so F%ck it...i just don't bring anything up any more and work on keeping her authentic self with me. the sex is great...LOL
I respectfully disagree with some of the comments above. I don't completely excuse family members such as your wife and some of my JW family because they're mentally controlled cult victims. I think they've had the same exposure to the evidence and the same opportunities to free themselves that you and I have had. They ought to recognize that something is wrong. JWs (at least the ones I'm familiar with) have always condemned people of other religions for not recognizing the wrongness of their religions, so I feel justified in condemning JWs for not recognizing that something is wrong with theirs.
I blame my family members more than I blame other JWs because they have the example of me. They know I'm smart, level-headed, reasonable, knowledgeable, and fair. They know I have good questions for they which they have no answers. They know I have good arguments against the org. Yet, they won't come to me and discuss the matter. They won't hear what I have to say. They continue to be JW drones, and they look at me suspiciously. Yet, they spend a lot of time going and telling others what's wrong with their religions. How unfair! They want to point out the wrongs of other religions, but don't want to hear anything against theirs. No, I don't excuse them.
So, to some extent, I do blame our family members. They're not totally innocent. If they wake and see and admit the truth, I'll gladly forgive them, but, if after a reasonable amount of time, if they can't/won't admit the truth, then they deserve to be JWs.
Sounds like you finally had a reasonable conversation with your wife.
You don't say here what you status is in the Cong, but if you're hoping to stay under the radar (for a fade) it might be dangerous to stir the shit so much. Be cautious.
Thanks for your experience. I hope very much for you that your wife wakes up. I hope my wife does too. I cannot have any kind of conversation with her. She has not spoken reasonably with me now for over six months, I know she is being coached by the elders. I have already contacted a lawyer, and because the elders are meddling in our marital affairs there are three laws on which I can make criminal charges against them. Also a fourth law that of "Sedition" can most definitely be considered because it is religiously motivated.