To the US Military (page 6)

DakotaRed

I would assume a good soldier is a man that follows orders well and does not question and that is a mentality that will never sit well with me. To kill when ordered to without having the luxury of reason is something I personally could never conscientiously subject myself to.

Actually, Path, that is not 100% accurate. While a good soldier does indeed follow orders, a good soldier also has the right to question and disobey an unlawful order. Yes, it does get to be quite sticky for him, if he so chooses and he had better make real sure he can prove it to be an unlawful order, but it is possible.

A prime example of this would be the My Lai massacre in Vietnam. While it is well known that it did happen, a little known fact is how it ended. An American Huey helicopter saw what was happening and landed between the soldiers and the Vietnamese civilians. The pilot and crew were all lower in rank that even Lt. Calley, but they intervened and put a stop to it, before it got even worse than it was.

In that case, it was obvious those American soldiers were out of control and in the wrong. Not every soldier in the group took part in the killing either and none were court martialed, only Lt. Calley (who was later pardoned).

By and large, though, you are right, a soldier does follow orders. But, to paint a picture of blindly following any and all order to kill with no regard to reason paints a false picture of the soldiers and has contributed to the many myths of the deranged Vietnam veterans over the past 30 odd years. And yes, being a soldier is not something everybody can do. I saw many a gung ho buffed out dude fail to even make it through Basic Training.

I don't mean this as a criticism of you, just as a clarification of a point. I hope it didn't offend you.

Lew W

Iwasyoungonce

"I think soldiers do a nasty job that not alot of people would want to do"

I AGREE PATH AND THAT I WHY I SIMPLY SAY THANK YOU TO THE MEN AND WOMEN OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES.

There are times when war is necessary.

UNFORTUNATLY YOU ARE RIGHT PATH. WITH CIVILIZATION COMES WAR. IT WOULD BE NICE IF WE WORKED FOR UNITY OF PURPOSE MORE AND UNITY OF IDEOLOGY LESS.

I would assume a good soldier is a man that follows orders well and does not question and that is a mentality that will never sit well with me.

THAT IS NOT TRUE PATH. THAT MAKES FOR GOOD CANNON FODDER. I CAN AGREE THOUGH THAT MENTALITY OF NOT HAVING THE ABILITY TO QUESTION WOULD NOT SET WELL WITH ME EITHER. IT WOULD SCARE ME IF THE GUY NEXT TO ME HAD THAT MENTALITY.

To kill when ordered to without having the luxury of reason is something I personally could never conscientiously subject myself to.

AND THAT IS WHY THE BRAIN WASHING THAT DOES IN FACT GO ON IN THE ARMED FORCES IS NOT LIKE THAT OF A CULT. YOU KNOW THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO DO TO YOU. THUS I WOULD NOT JOIN THE SERVICE IN PEACE TIMES. BUT IF I WERE 18 WOULD I DO IT NOW? I MIGHT, I PROBABLY WOULD. THESE GUYS PUT THEMSELVES IN HARMS WAY BECAUSE THEY ARE HEROS. PEOPLE WHO HAVE FAMILY IN THE ARMED FORCES HAVE A UNITY THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE FAMILY IN BERKLY DON'T SHARE.

I think soldiers are often the pawns of men that live in ivory towers

ARE YOU SAYING THAT PRESIDENT BUSH DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THE MEN AND WOMEN OF THE ARMED FORCES? IF SO I COMPLETLY DISAGREE. IF NOT THEN DON'T BE GENERAL ABOUT THINGS LIKE THAT.

Soldiers on every side are just doing what they are told and are buying into the propaganda of their leaders that are safe in some bunker somewhere.

WHAT PROPAGANDA ARE YOU REFERING TO? I HEAR THAT WORD HERE A LOT. BUT HERE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THINGS OF OUR CHOICE WITH IN REASON. WE CAN DO RESEARCH WITH IN REASON ON ANY TOPIC. WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO AS HIGH AN EDUCATION AS WE WISH TO STRIVE FOR. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT AS A COUNTER TO PROPAGANDA? HERE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AMERICAN SOLDIERS. NOT EVERY GOVERNMENTS SOLDIERS ARE THE SAME. NOT EVERY COUNTRY GIVES PEOPLE A CHOICE IN PEACE TIMES.

One can glorify war and the men that die, and there are times if it should come down to it that this is an honorable death. But I think too many times too many men and women and children are dying needlessly and all the patriotic bullshit will not bring them back.

THIS STATEMENT IS JUST PLAIN RUDE AND IN MY OPINION LOWERS THE VALUE OF ALL INVOLVED. SO MANY HERE LOVE THE MILK AND THE HONEY BUT CAN NOT EVEN HAVE THE COMMON CURTESY OF A SIMPLY THANK YOU.

Am I the only one here who sees a major difference between being patriotic and being a nationalist?

(and the caps are not yelling the icon bar did not come up and I did not want to say "path says" all the time.)

YERU2

People use the term "propoganda" like it's a bad thing. Somehow propoganda has become associated with the term "lie." Propoganda can be, and often is, a simple statement of facts, or a logical conclusion drawn from the facts.

Michael3000

APPOSED - ER, OPPOSED.

Pathofthorns

I just wanted to thank those that replied for their comments. I think if the unfortunate happens and u end up in some foreign land shot full of holes bleeding to death, at that moment a man sees beyond the propaganda and politics and wonders whether it was all worth it. You know, that moment of clarity when one's life flashes before their eyes...

You see, if it was truly for freedom for everyone back home, or if it was just so that they can put cheep gas in their cars and get to work it makes all the difference.

Every man or woman that dies as a soldier is loved by someone and every human life that is taken before its time is precious. Whether you are an american being shipped to some Vietnam to die for god knows what or you are on the other side being burned to death, in the end you will just be a number or a vote to the politicians. But to some husband or wife or child back home your life is worth more than politics.

In the end we all want to make our life and our death count.

Path

Iwasyoungonce

I know that many people have died so that I can raise my children in a peace filled land Path. It (lack of violence) is not everywhere in the US by far. But step by step we loose the common sense principles that make us great. I fight for them. Like in Virginia a CCP is a given to all law abiding citizens, it's not a question. Crime is of the lowest in the Nation. Take LA where only movie stars and politians get them and look at what it does, crime is ramped. Some things are worth fighting for, some things are worth dying for. Peace is better. But peace at any cost is not freedom. At least that peace is to high a price for me. America is not attacked because most Governments know what will happen. And, when they are in trouble it is America who people turn to for help. Maybe today that is not your Country, but I for one think that American Super power politics (With the UN) beat out the alternatives. The thing is my patriotism does not ignore that there are clear areas that need to be improved upon.(That does not even begin to underscore what I mean)

But to some husband or wife or child back home your life is worth more than politics.

Yes Path it is. But conflict is sometimes not avoidable. The dubs in my life made it crystal clear. They see no reason why anyone should have a gun in public. I explained that criminals unfortunatly have them remember the Texas restaurant. And there was a Mcdonalds I remember. (And more.) I explained that many crimes are prevented by armed civilians. Which he said "YA BUT THEN YOU ARE TAKING THE LAW INTO YOUR OWN HANDS!" My response was yes but if you were in the restaurant and were the next to be shot and I stopped the criminal by killing him I would save your live. He said "SO WHAT THAT DOESN'T MATTER!" (It would matter to me, but hey I am kinda selfish that way.)

The National Defense issue is the same thing; Only bigger. Iraq will not be much of a concern. Do you think that the UN is wrong?

Iwasyoungonce

Never, Never, never, believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The Statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events.

-Winston Churchill.

Every gun that is fired, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and those that are not fed, those that are cold and not clothed...This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from an iron cross.

-Dwight D. Eisenhower

meadow77

I want to send my thanx to the men and women who suffer and give their lives for their friends, family, and country. God said greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friend. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for showing the greatest love there is. I think it's too bad that in a country with such extreme tolerance and freedom, people can live under that blanket while disagreeing with the method in which it's provided. If they disagree so much maybe they should try voting, works for me.

Realist

how will voting change anything in the USA?

Realist

Yerusalyim,

they tried to occupy the US?

To the US Military

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