by IslandWoman 53 Replies latest jw friends
lol.
The dictionary meaning for divination certainly covers "casting lots". What exactly did you think they were trying to accomplish with "casting lots", lol? Did you think it was some kind of ancient "heads or tails" game?
Edited by - SixofNine on 24 November 2002 23:35:49
We're having some fun now!!!
mac
SixofNine,
If you're so sure that casting lots was a form of divination, show me your sources. You know you can't, so all you're giving me are your own emotional feelings. As I told IW,
Now you're making up your own definitions. No wonder we don't see eye-to-eye. Really, there's no way to deal with someone such as you. You have an answer for everything, no matter how illogical and ridiculous.
If you can't do any better than that, we can go on all night with this back and forth banter -- you with your silly notions and me with the facts.
Herk
I'm serious, this board does not need another dumb-ass stinking it up. Please decline that role.
Again, what exactly is your notion of what "casting lots" is, if it is not divination? No need for a dictionary or the insight book, just your idea of what "casting lots" is. Please. Did you think it was a form of ancient "heads or tails", or do you see it as a method to get divine or supernatural insight?
I'll spare you the obvious of posting a dictionary definition of divination.
Edited by - SixofNine on 24 November 2002 23:53:39
In ancient times, just as today, it was common to use lots to find out what God wanted them to do. This and any other sort of divination is condemned in Deuteronomy. Yet there is a specific exception given in the Torah : the use of the Urim and Thummim (marked stones) by the chief priests ( Numbers 27:21 ; Deut 33:8 ). This use is authorized by God for difficult situations. In I Samuel 14 , lots were used to discover who had acted against King Saul's rash command; Saul was clearly not commanded or authorized to use lots, but he did, with a 'successful' discovery that was almost horrible. The Septuagint translation, which in this case is probably more accurate, makes the use of lots more explicit by referring directly to Saul's use of the Urim and Thummim. In Esther , lots were used by the Persians (not the Jews) for determining when to act. Hence the name of the Jewish holiday Purim , from Akkadian puru (='lot'). But the Jews were not above using lots to suss out God. In Joshua , Israel lost at Ai, and used lots to find out whose evil deeds caused it; the lots were used at God's command (7:14). In Jonah , the sailors used lots to (correctly) find out whom God was angry with; God did not command the lots, but used it anyway.
Dutchie,
God did not condemn the use of lots. The casting of lots was definitely a Jewish custom approved by God: "The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD." (Pr 16:33) In Israel the proper use of a lot was to end a controversy: "The cast lot puts an end to strife and decides between the mighty ones." (Pr 18:18)
As I analysed this thread, I noted that the focus has been on Jewish and Christian lots. I don't see how anyone can accurately conclude that they were a form of divination any more than prayer is a means of divination. I think Herk is right in saying that we have to abide by dictionary definitions, not on what we personally want a word to mean.
The first mention in the Bible of drawing lots is in connection with selecting the goats for God and for Azazel on Atonement Day. (Le 16:7-10) In Jesus' time the Jewish high priest performed a similar routine. Lots were drawn to determine the order of service at the temple. (1 Ch 24:5-18) God commanded that the division of the Promised Land among the 12 tribes be performed by casting lots. (Nu 26:55, 56) A New Testament example is the one IslandWoman quoted from Acts 1:21-26. So, there is abundant evidence all through the Bible that God both authorized and approved of the casting of lots.
Personally, I think it's a stretch to speak of the practice as divination. Divination has to do with the interpretation of omens or portents or phenomena. It makes use of the psychical powers of a spiritualistic medium. The casting of lots was nothing like that.
fjtoth
1 : the art or practice that seeks to foresee or foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge usually by the interpretation of omens or by the aid of supernatural powers
Jesus Herbert Christos! *shakes head*
Dutchie, thanks for posting that. Where can I find those commentaries?
Six,
I have a book on my shelf entitled "Mystical Christianity". I got the information from there.
I used to have a Ouija board but I've gotta admit, this "Casting of Lot's" game sounds even more fun and interesting. Who makes it, Milton Bradley? I know what I'm putting on my Xmas list!
LOL apologizing in advance
The question I would ask any Christian is does the casting of lots work today if used within the church?
If not, why back in Isrealite times and not now?
Interesting threadage.
