Should I continue to support Bill Bowen?

by Gamaliel 83 Replies latest jw friends

  • RevMalk
    RevMalk

    You guys are hilarious - Like you could do any better....and if so do it, by all means the more the merrier.

    For a guy who seems to want everyone to drop the issue, you do pretty damn good at keeping it alive.

    I tried to get my point across weeks ago that we should all drop it. Then I left, and I came back and you're all still acting like idiots. If you don't like the guy you don't like him, what can I say? But what sense does it make to constantly debate the issue? I think Simon has about had it with us all, and I think we should respect what appears to be his wishes and go on to something productive for a change.

    ***I have no idea who's right or wrong, and no amount of arguing will ever give us the answer. The secret behind this entire mess will go to the graves of both men I imagine. But who are we to say one is telling the truth and one is not? Are we some kind of God's that know all?***

    May I suggest to you, that your above statement so misses the whole point. It no longer is as simplistic as answering 'who said what', the endless discussion, you claim to despise, is now predicated on Bill Bowen's inability to accept anyone's, ANYONE'S view(s) that differ from his. And I will add a Period to that!

    It's true that Bill is very opinionated, but I think if you got to know him, you'd find this statement to be false. You certainly don't get as far as silentlambs has with a wussy at the helm, this is what it takes. Perhaps Bill is a little overwhelming, I won't dispute that, but come on, aren't we all? We've all been through alot, and rather than lend support to one another, we rip each other apart. Just like the Society says we will. Now shouldn't we all be proud? I bet you, that a good 80% of the threads on this board contain at least one derogatory remark by one that should be here to support another.....and it just doesn't seem to work the right way..

    His demeanor throughout this whole charade, has been nothing short of fanatical, in his quest to strongarm those who do not see thing's his way. Even asserting that Jehovah God see's things his (Bill's) way.

    Believe me, I've been working on the website for weeks, it takes a little fanaticism to keep your sanity, and even then it's not easy. No-one puts forth this much effort without it. I don't see you doing anything, maybe you could learn a thing or two. (maybe you are doing something beside bitching up a storm, I have no idea really)

    If you or other defender's of this eccentric can excuse this sort of blatant meism, then do so freely. To expect or demand that other's drop this issue is haughty and very self centered. Who are you to dictate what we discuss or consider important?

    I didn't say I was his defender, as a matter of fact I said the complete opposite. I'm defending the cause for crying out loud - damn, some people around here need to learn to read.

    I suggest you return to Bill's site, Iam fairly sure you will hear only what tickels your ear's there.

    How nice of you to suggest what I should do......

    Look, I've said it before, you don't have to like the guy to agree with the cause, and if you don't like the guy and don't agree with the cause then why even bother with it? If we all spent this much time and effort doing something worthwhile we might get someplace here. But to each his own I guess......by all means go ahead, keep up this constant bickering that's surely helping someone, otherwise all you kind hearted people wouldn't be doing it right?

    That's all I have to say. Out of respect for Simon, I will not talk about this anymore. He surely didn't build this wonderful place for us to ruin it, and I for one apologize Simon, I don't know how you keep your sanity.

    Ok, let it rip guys, tear me to shreds you kind hearted wackos

    ======================= edited to fix a typo =======================

    Edited by - RevMalk on 21 November 2002 2:16:8

  • fjtoth
    fjtoth

    Edited by - fjtoth on 21 November 2002 18:12:6

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    I haven't read through all the posts, but SHEESH!

    Can't any of us get on with life.

    I don't think Ray Franz has worried as much about Bill's comments as some of the people on this Website.

    From all I have read on this Thread, it seems to be the usual:

    "Bill Bowen is trying to be a god"

    "Bill Bowen is using and abusing the victims for his own secret agenda"

    "Bill Bowen is a slanderer"

    "blah blah blah"

    I could accuse several people on this Board of "slandering" other people by some of their comments I have seen, but I'm not going to.

    Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 21 November 2002 6:18:14

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    To answer the question of this Thread: "Should I continue to support Bill Bowen?":

    Support and Help ABUSE VICTIMS.

    Support and Help people who are helping ABUSE VICTIMS.

    Period.

  • fjtoth
    fjtoth

    Edited by - fjtoth on 21 November 2002 18:12:54

  • Gamaliel
    Gamaliel

    Thanks to everyone for their comments. I know I didn't respond well to everyone although I'd still like to. Silentlambs is an important topic on this forum and I'm sure it will continue to be. In the future, if I bring up issues with silentlambs, I will definitely try to avoid spreading the "Bill v Ray virus." For now, I just have a few more feelings to express.

    I'd like to clarify that I feel proud as an exJW, that another exJW, Bill Bowen has put as much work and money into the silentlambs organization as he has. I see it as a place that's easy for victims to reach. It already has a "marketable" and appropriate name and widespread recognition. Obviously, it offers a voice to victims, offers empowering examples to victims and offers an environment where their voice is accepted as credible. Importantly, true to its niche, I think it recognizes the specific issues that make victims in the JW category know that they are not alone in their feeling of being doubly victimized. (i.e., due to the WTS organization's twisted view of itself and twisted method of handling abuse cases) I'm no expert, but I believe these factors alone make it an important resource for JW and xJW healing, at least in the initial steps.

    Some of the future things I'd like to see are already being addressed and it sounds like there are ambitious plans to expand. I'd like to see more of the following: more listings of (inter)national resources (support and legal), balanced discussions and information about: the various stages of recovery, victim mentality, credibility issues, the statute of limitations, consequences of false accusations, rules of evidence, medical issues, psychological issues, experts from both sides of the repressed memory controversy, more publications, reporting laws, book reviews, etc.

    Having said that, I believe my concerns over the future of this organization are still valid. I think Bill, in straining his own personal credibility, has also managed to strain the credibility of the silentlambs organization -- but not beyond fixing. Bill has already shown that his organization has good potential. Therefore, I don't think it's ever too early to begin discussing a "backup plan" to help assure the continuity and expansion of that potential. This "backup" might be necessary in the case of serious organizational issues, financial issues, illness, credibility loss, WTS lawsuit, etc.

    By a "backup plan" I actually mean two things:

    First, I'd like to see evidence that Bill is making more use of other people in the decision-making process, such as experienced legal, marketing and PR strategists.If he already is then it is merely that my opinion doesn't coincide with their recent advice, and perhaps Bill was doing much better without them.

    Second, I mean a "co-existing alternative" meaning another organization with another website, run by different people. Resources could be very similar, but perhaps it would play in a quieter niche for now. It also could be a JW-related extension to an existing legal or support organization.

    I must admit that I also have concerns that if another group or organization competes in the same JW/xJW niche and becomes successful that Bill may expend too much negative energy on it. I hope I'm wrong, but it seems to me to be part of his revealed nature. Still, it's not such an uncommon or unexpected personality flaw in those who manage to create highly successful organizations.

    I've written that I have further evidence of that same personality flaw and I also have evidence of dishonesty, but I don't have proof, and I don't feel I should risk further tearing down beyond what I have already done. Care with evidence is necessary because others may re-use it for a different purpose from that which was intended. I do believe we have an obligation to tear down and criticize to the point where we believe we are trying to accomplish something useful or good in the long run. Silentlambs is in its beginning stages and if we wish to be truly loyal to its cause, we will all do what we can to help put it on a surer footing.

    I should also clarify that I do not, as it has been suggested, have any "evidence" from Ray Franz or any of the other people that Bill has referred to as "the GB of the xJWs." Perhaps it's not even fair to imply that I have more evidence than I have divulged. Then again, others in this thread have already offered evidence of the same type. I have nothing substantially more to add than what has already been expressed in various places.

    Gamaliel

    Edited by - Gamaliel on 21 November 2002 13:48:2

  • Gary1914
    Gary1914

    Gamaliel, it is obvious that you have many ideas and plans for the betterment of Silentlambs. Have you spoken to Bill about these plans or are you just sharing your insight with this forum?

    By the way, do you realize that in all your posts, even those that pretend to be conciliatory toward Bill, you couch insults and inuendos toward Bill in your speech?

    Edited by - Gary1914 on 21 November 2002 14:36:7

  • Gamaliel
    Gamaliel

    Gary1914,

    I passed my suggestions along to silentlambs.

    Also, you asked:

    By the way, do you realize that in all your posts, even those that pretend to be conciliatory toward Bill, you couch insults and inuendos toward Bill in your speech?

    I didn't check earlier posts, but I checked the last one and, no, it does not have any conciliatory pretensions, couched insults or innuendos. So, no, it's definitely not true of all my posts.

    Sounds like you might be concerned about my ambivalence. I can assure you, I am both conciliatory and critical up to the point where I feel it is appropriate. Only my moniker is pretentious.

    Gamaliel

    Edited by - Gamaliel on 22 November 2002 13:36:4

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Gamaliel,

    I just want to say that all of the times I have contacted Bill Bowen, he has never been rude, he has never lied to me, and as far as I know, I haven't seen him lie to anyone else.

    I also do not believe that Bill Bowen would ever tell someone that they had to "Pledge their Allegience" to him.

    I completely support the SilentLambs because I believe 100% that Bill Bowen is helping Children, which is the most important thing.

    I really have no idea what went on privately between Bill Bowen and Ray Franz (I don't think most of the people on this Website do either).

    But, I do not believe that Bill Bowen would say anything about someone unless he was pretty sure he was correct.

    But, Bill could definitely have wrong information or wrong advice.

    Also, Bill is definitely not a real subtle person.

    I definitely do not believe that Bill would intentionally slander anyone.

    Also, from what I have read about Barbara Anderson, she cares so much about Children that she gave up 40+ years as a Jehovah's Witness (over a decade at Bethel), plus she gave up her reputation among Jehovah's Witnesses, she gave up her association with all of her JW friends, and she even gave up being able to visit her grandchild.

    She did all that so she could try and speak out and protect JW Children from being molested and raped by the monsters that the Watchtower allows to roam free throughout the JW Congregations.

    Barbara Anderson supports Bill Bowen, so I would think she wouldn't support anyone who wasn't helping Children.

    Peace to you,

    In Christ

    Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 22 November 2002 1:31:12

  • Pleasuredome
    Pleasuredome

    can anyone tell me if Franz now believes that there is a problem of child abuse coverups in the organisation?

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