Should I continue to support Bill Bowen?

by Gamaliel 83 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  RevMalk

  I am sick of this entire thing. I personally don't care what Ray had to do with anything. It doesn't matter at this point because he can't change anything. People have opinions of other people....it happens. We all have opinions of each other, but they can't? You can do what you want a support what you wish, but the main agenda is and always will be support for the Abused. If you think the site as it sits today is a great tool for these means, you have seen nothing yet. The site isn't even half complete, and the services that are coming from silentlambs is nothing compared to what it will be via the site in the next few weeks.

  I may not always agree with Bill, but I always agree with the cause. I've donated the time and webspace for silentlambs.org and lambsroar.com, and still I feel this is not enough. silentlambs is not Bill, and Bill is not silentlambs. If you care about the children, then care about the children. Your donations were for them, and continue to be for them. Bill will probably shoot me for saying this, but silentlambs is in the red and has been since the beginning, and every little bit helps. 99% of the monies spent come out of Bill's pocket, and I know this for a fact. Is that a kook you're describing? Have you any idea what it costs just to maintain a website such as silentlambs? I can tell you, it's not cheap. And although the site has been donated to the cause, this is a fraction of the finances it takes to run the day to day operations. With expansions coming to all 50 states, provinces of Canada, and globally, it's bound to get even worse. So, if a man who spends literally 10's of thousands of dollars of his own money to support the silentlambs, and future would be silentlambs, is a kook, than we should all strive to be such. You can judge a man by his heart, and he may not be perfect, but who is? You tell me. You look in the mirror, think of all those children, and tell me if you'd put even 1/4 of the effort into this cause.
• 

  SLOAN

  DB,
  I feel FINE about myself!

  I'm not the one calling people NAMES such as yourself. Believe me; there's PLENTY I could call you. But some of us have class; wouldn't expect you to know about that!!!
• 

  SLOAN

  Rev,

  Thank YOU. I'm soo tired of everyone talking soo bad about Bill. You said all of the things I'm too tired to say for tonight!!

  People just DON'T get it do they!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hurt all the victims just because they hate Bill or because they have a personal Vendetta against him. It's sooo sad!
• 

  Gamaliel

  Iwasyoungonce,

  I appreciate what you said. Sounds like you share a lot of the same feelings.

  Just from pretending that just because it is done to a Jehovah Witness by a Jehovah Witness that it is somehow more henious than of it were done by a Catholic or even a non religous person.

  I agree that it isn't fair to the rest of the world to treat JW issues as if they are all-important. Still, with so many friends, former friends, family and loved ones still inside, I tend to think of them a lot. Maybe I shouldn't, but I can't help it. I still have fond memories of those old days along with the reality check.

  In the real world there are so many good charites and organizations that anyone can join. I think that if you are sincere in wanting to donate money to worthy causes you will find them. And maybe you will consider joining in making a better world for us all. I know that I do.

  My wife was always a bigger charity giver than I was. She got in trouble for it when we were JWs before we got married. They wanted her to stop giving to all charities, but the one they took special exception to was the Veterans of Foreign Wars. She still gives checks to about a dozen major charities (VFW included) and every November/December we are flooded with at least 100 charity envelopes reminding us of how we are "loved."

  For me, I'm more of a skeptic about charities, but silentlambs seemed like the perfect charity for an exJW. It seemed to "kill two birds with one stone," meaning that it did some real good for victims while putting the WTS on notice at the same time.

  I no longer talk about the site as I talked to everyone a few months ago.

  Exactly. I was talking to a long-time JW acquaintance this week who is currently going through judicial hearings. He's not a victim of abuse, but I mentioned the silentlambs site to him because I thought he should be more aware of the WTS underbelly. Actually, I offered to give him one of Ray's books, which I think would be more suited to his style, but he's afraid of repercussions if he's caught with the book, so I needed to point him to a website and mentioned freeminds.org and silentlambs.org. As of today, I'd be afraid he'd lose interest if he gets a whiff of the bickering.

  Gamaliel
• 

  Gamaliel

  Prisca,

  Thanks for the welcome. I agree that there are many organizations to choose from. I let the United Way take a percent of my paycheck but I really don't even have a feel for why. Probably because the boss had a campaign once to get 100% participation in United Way a few years ago and I'm too apathetic about UW to change it. But I am allowed to just add my own charity in place of UW if it's a legit one.

  It's just for my own reasons that if I pick another charity I'd like to know that they can understand JW and exJW issues. A friend just told me about one that handles exJW issues as a kind of "post traumatic stress disorder."

  My anger is mellowing out a little now. I may have made myself sound too harsh with the title of the thread. It's true I'm worried, because it's not hard to imagine a scenario where this little problem is treated like an obsession and Bill sets himself up for a burnout trying to defend an untenable position.

  I think a lot of us realized the value of Bill's work, there seems to be nothing else quite like it, and we have therefore put all our eggs in one basket. Is the silentlambs organization set up so that people requesting support can be helped in case of an unexpected illness or incapacity?

  Can folks be directed to an organization knowledgable of their specific problem so that they feel comfortable? Can silentlambs be expanded to include legal counsel? What about trained investigators? I've heard that even volunteers can train to become case investigators if they work under the aegis of a reputable organization.Gamaliel
• 

  Iwasyoungonce

  Gamaliel,

  Just remember that we may share some of the same emotions. But, they may or may not be for the same reasons. For me the only good thing to come "out" of the Jehovah Witnesses is my wife. Whom I love very much. For me there is nothing "in" that society. There has never been a "good" like there was for so many. I rejected the love bombing because I knew what is was. When my son came of age I put a stop to it. And that is why shit it the fan for me. I do not miss my JW family at all. Being here encouraged me to do more research on the mindset of the average Jehovah Witness. And I call it mind control. If you accept everything that the WT says then they control you. If you choose to only look selectivly for information that supports the ideology that you want to believe then you will always be satified. Even if it defies all logic and reality itself.

  My issue with balancing the JW/Silentlambs issue was not that it is or is not worthy. It is, "should I be doing more for all the children of horrible crime as well?" And if so what does that mean? My point is I do not wish to become obsessed with the jwishness it. I don't wish to hate JW's. But, Damit they make it hard to not do that!

  Another thing to remember is that Silentlambs is also fighting for active Jehovah Witnesses too. Please don't forget that. Dispite the outright hate and hostility shown towards the supporters of Silentlambs by so many of the Jehovah Witnesses, it is them too that they are fighting for. What is perfect is that the desire is to be inclusive and not exclusive. And that is a blessed thing.

  Last, the "not talking as much to people"...I'm feeling rather weathered mostly. It's my problem and I'll deal with it. I still stand 100% for the flag of Silentlambs and what it is for and whom that it serves.(lambs)

  Thanks for your posts Gamaliel, I hope that we talk more.
• 

  Gamaliel

  Pistoff,

  First off, I like your name. I was thinking of "Ivan Pistoff Sonavovich" for myself and saw you already had the best part of that name.

  You make some very good points:

  To me this is so much like what I did as a witness; if I think any little thing is not right, I walk away, and the world just does not work well that way.

  I noticed how much I sounded like a JW all over again when I was wrote: "I would be knowingly supporting..." It takes more than just the years to get this stuff out of our mind.

  I guess I just needed it validated that silentlambs is growing beyond being too closely tied to one person. From what I can tell, Bill may use some other names, too, but takes the name "silentlambs" to put this same message on at least three websites in the last couple weeks. Dutchie, avishai, and RevMalk have also said some things that made me think more about Bill is going through. Not that what he's going through isn't exactly what makes me worry, however.

  Gamaliel
• 

  Simon

  Bill has told the hard truth. So did evidently did Ms Pat Garza when she said Ted Jarasz of the Gov Body molested her when District Overseer in L.A. since he has not denied what she has publicly stated. Is this what you mean?

  it is important to remember that 'not denying something' is no proof whatsoever. maybe he hasn't heard about it or is only willing to answer it in a court of law where, as far as I am aware, the allegation has not been made.

  We should not be so quick to accept any and all allegations made about the WTS as it does not make us look credible or balanced. When I was coming out and reading various websites I did not stay long on the ones that were bitter and unballanced. They may have had good information too but the more reasonable ones putting out a reasoned argument backed up with verifiable facts were the ones that I found convincing.

  I think the problem with what Bill Bowen says about Raymond Franz is that he does not do it as a personal thing, ie. as Bill Bowen, but as the official 'Silentlambs' spokesman on the Silentlambs.org website. This does then tie the Ray Franz issue into whether people want to support silentlambs, the whole thing, or not. I think too that the attitude that "you support me 100% or you support child rapists" can make it difficult to support it sometimes and it should not be a difficult thing to support surely?

  If Bill doesn't want to drop the stuff about Ray Franz then I do wish he would post it as himself and not as Silentlambs. All he needs to do is have his "official" spokesman account and a separate one for his personal views as he used here.

  I think the answer to the topic is that the question is wrong. We should be supporting the silent lambs and the Silentlambs org should be more than just one person.
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  Gamaliel

  SLOAN,

  I hope no one has a personal vendetta against Bill. Bill has definitely given the impression in writing that a lot of people have a kind of vendetta against him. He especially seems to go after the "published xjws" -- saying they even have a war against him. I know that Ray Franz bears him no ill will at all, because I spoke to him about it. Even if someone doesn't like Ray, they still only have to call him up and in a few seconds they will know that Bill is wrong about this claim. Also, just because I personally don't like what Bill is doing now doesn't mean I don't still want to help Bill. You said to RevMalk:

  People just DON'T get it do they!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hurt all the victims just because they hate Bill or because they have a personal Vendetta against him. It's sooo sad!

  When we were JWs on our way out, we were told that absolute loyalty meant never speaking out against the wrongs of the WTS. But we knew that true loyalty meant that we absolutely should speak out when we see danger. True, for a while we give them the benefit of the doubt, or waited on Jehovah, or thought of it as just a "phase." But sooner or later we will speak out if we are truly loyal to those we think might be hurt.

  What may appear to be hurting the victims may actually be helping the victims. If Bill takes the site down and can no longer provide the organizational support, I think someone should be thinking of a back-up plan. I was pretty sure there were already some back-up plans in place.

  Gamaliel
• 

  Tinkerbell4125

  Lord, here we go again!!!