by ScoobySnax 48 Replies latest watchtower medical
Scooby,
Thanks for the story. I try to see the positive in most situations, so it was nice to see a machine donated that will benefit others. As for the Witnesses being able to "conscientously" use this device as opposed to the restrictions of other just as viable proceedures, I'm sure those in the medical field will just write it off as the rantings of any other religion based on Pyramidology.
PurpleV, ....ok I skipped your first reply, but am responding to your second. Speaking from my own personal view, the post I intiated was to inform what had happened in the hospital that I work in, I have no need to re-type the original post, its there.
I'm really not sure if as you say that God wants this to be so complicated and "picky" as you say, I can understand what point you are trying to make. I guess if I am making a point for the Witnesses and their faith, you'll understand that what the Witnesses believe from their interpratation of the Bible, and what that entails as regard the blood issue, is their right to believe in. I'm not really here to question or argue that point. As a health professional, I am however bound to accept and support anyone who chooses to follow the medical decisions they choose in regard to their health and wellbeing, that is their choice. The Blood Cell Saver machine kindly donated by the JWs enables them and others who may refuse blood on a concientious basis or medical reason to decline donated blood.
Speaking from a "religious" point of view....Jehovahs Witnesses may die because of their refusal to accept a blood transfusion, but that is there personal choice, to them they are maintaing there faith and trust in Jehovah, to them that is paramount. I'm not in a position to deny them of that....are you?
This is nothing new. "Cell savers" have been around for years.
These devices, when used, allow the JW patient to ignore the Biblical direction that they often site: "pour the blood upon the ground." Instead, blood "spilled" as part of a surgical procedure is re-infused, put back into the vein of the JW patient. In the face of this admitted fact, these same JWs will claim that they had "bloodless" surgery.
JW patients are not allowed to donate blood for later use by themselves (the usual storage period is limited to about one month). They are permitted to store blood during the operative period in a cell saver machine till it is processed whereupon it is again "taken in" by the donor. The WTS has yet to tell us what scripture explains this differentiation.
The WTS also has yet to explain the scriptural basis for the "taking in" of large amounts of blood components (the only exception is the membrane surrounding the red cell) that have been donated by non-JWs, while not permitting JWs to donate these same blood components for use by themselves and others. Collecting money and buying a cell saver machine to donate to a hospital is fine, but donating blood is a far more precious gift, IMO
Double-think at its best
This issue and many other aspects of the JW blood doctrine are discussed at:
This irritates me beyond belief. This is NOT for the community; it is for saving the lives of Jehovah's witnesses, as it is them who have not abandoned their/our medieval medical beliefs. Think: what have we ever done as an org that is completely selfless? ALL of what we do is self serving and this is NO EXCEPTION.
This makes me sick. We all have said that we refuse blood a) due to our personal belief (in reality, most witnesses have NO idea what is allowed and have to rely on the HLC; so much for personal conviction) b) blood is to be poured out if outside the body, but this medical device allows the "link" to be unbroken?
Bullshit. This is just a way to get around admitting that this policy is corrupt. And now we can have hemoglobin solutions, as long as it has been separated from the red cell. How about admitting that this policy is micromanaged, wrong, and deadly?
This giving of a medical device is to me nearly criminal. NOW you can have your life saved if your circuit/district is heads up enough, or rich enough, to donate this medical device. How about discussing this policy in the WT? How about going public with it, and not taking this back door approach, how about letting all the rank and file in on this???
This organization is so corrupt it makes me sick to my stomach. I am disgraced to admit that I am still a witness in "good standing".
Snax said: " I guess if I am making a point for the Witnesses and their faith, you'll understand that what the Witnesses believe from their interpratation of the Bible, and what that entails as regard the blood issue, is their right to believe in. I'm not really here to question or argue that point. As a health professional, I am however bound to accept and support anyone who chooses to follow the medical decisions they choose in regard to their health and wellbeing, that is their choice. The Blood Cell Saver machine kindly donated by the JWs enables them and others who may refuse blood on a concientious basis or medical reason to decline donated blood."
There are a number of things wrong with what you have said above. Their decision about blood usually has little to do with their faith or interpretation of the Bible; it has everything to do with what the WTS says. When the WTS said vaccinations were wrong JWs did not get vaccines. When the ban was lifted most JWs, especially their children got vaccines. Same with "blood fractions." When all blood components were banned JW abided by the rules. When, over time, more and more "fractions were allowed JWs used them as needed in hospitals wherever the word of the WTS latest direction had spread.
Cell saver machines do nothing for the trauma patient, injured in some remote location who is brought into the ER in shock with a Hb of less than 5 and still bleeding. It does nothing for the cancer patient whose red cells are depleted by their disease and by the cancer therapy. It does nothing for the end-stage hepatic disease patient whos liver can not make many blood components including clotting factors. The list could go on, but you get the idea.
Cell saver machines are good for a particular "elective situation only. The WTS will not educate its followers in its limitations and will not admit that there are many medical situations where blood is needed for which it has no ready answer. Many JWs adhere to the blood policy of the WTS only because of the threat of Dfing. Those WTS leaders who continue to insist on adherence to the blood policy are nothing less than murderers. Those leaders who stand by and watch JWs die because of the blood policy are co-conspirators, murderers.
Tell me then "Pistoff"...why if you feel that this was just for witnesses that it was endorsed so much by consultants, anaesthetists, paedatricians, etc that I work alongside in the hospital??? Are they all misled too?.......This benefits all, JW or not, you know a consultant physician who was at the presentation, and is not a Witness said that transfusion of donor blood is becoming increasingly more worrying because of the increased risk of infection that entails, ie.HIV, Hepatitis, CJD, and undetected strands of new diseases, and that new methods and practices need to be adopted, citing the blood cell saver machine as a breakthrough.......So, is she just being stupid, or is she being sponsered by the WBTBS???? No she is just on the frontline of healthcare and is responding to the changing times we're living in. Why can't you for once take off your "kill the WT view" at any point reasoning??
Some years ago one of the HLC's in this country asked for funds from the WTS to purchase & donate a Cell Saver to the Starship Childrens Hospital in Auckland. The WTS declined to provide the money claiming their role was that of a religious organisation, not a medical one. IIRC, that directive came from Brooklyn.
So the local HLC raised the money on their own and donated the equipment. For their trouble they were "told off" by the Society (although that is not known by many).
Even so, this apparently altruistic action is really just a publicity stunt to improve Jehovah's Witnesses image in the face of Health Ptofessionals who think they are "weirdo's".
Pistoff:
This organization is so corrupt it makes me sick to my stomach. I am disgraced to admit that I am still a witness in "good standing".
So go tell the elders what you really think about this. You'll find your "good standing" status will soon change.
Mackin
Actually Sam, The points you raise are very good points, these were raised by concerned professionals in attendance, i.e the admission of a trauma patient in casualty following maybe a car traffic accident.....The cell saver can be set up in minutes when the call comes through enabling that type of treatment to be available when the patient arrives in A&E. Treatment of cancer patients was also raised and the concern that the machine would be viable in these instances, I'm not qualified to comment on that instance, but Cancer specialists present at the presentation appeared to have their questions answered satisfactorily..(I must admit, it went over my head at that point!)..... Anyway just to let you know...!
I am saying, scooby, that this machine is primarily for witnesses, that the witnesses will not, have never (as an organization) given to charity unless it's own members are the primary benefactors. I am glad that this machine will help people, whatever their religion.
My main point is that it is self serving and dishonest for this religion, of which I AM a member, to give this machine and blow their trumpet about it as they did. Their motives are not for the good of the community at large; this gift primarily was given to save the lives of witnesses to the limitations of it's design and indicated benefits. The organization I grew up with, the WTS, and live with now, is not concerned with the community at large, and does not encourage it's members to give to charity as a major part or even minor part of their worship. I have a business, I send around the United Way envelope and all I get is, "oh, don't they fund abortions, or don't they have a political wing."
They have NO concept that yes maybe they do, but the greater good makes it worthwhile. Most witnesses consider charity only if it furthers the "kingdom" message, or as in this case, keeps a few witness blood crises out of the newspaper.
I object to their donating this in such a public fashion and for their reasons in doing so.
I did not mean to offend you in any way.
mackin wrote:
So go tell the elders what you really think about this. You'll find your "good standing" status will soon change.
Someday.
I can't afford to yet; too many family members are in yet, and employees are all witnesses. How sad that in order to keep family and business, one cannot voice a dissenting opinion, but then, such is life in the WTS.
I am a little wound up about this today; tomorrow maybe I can mellow out a little.
