Well, I could say "get a life" but that is considered taboo on this site by some. Listen, I was a Jehovah's Witness for some years, gave them the best years of my life, as an overseer in the congregation, I had to enforce those silly rules. I feel no animosity towards the Society or its followers. I've moved on with my life, I don't need to vent, I put all that energy into something more positive.
I just don't get some of these people holding a grudge for so long, one guy I know has been out some 30 years and he still talks about it as if he was DF'd last week, and for 30 years it's been eating him up to the point where he can't function, all that hatred? For what? I'm sorry .... but get a life, man!
Less Religion and more Jesus!
RR, people like the person you describe who've been out for 30 years have obviously been hurt vastly much more than you; more than you can apparently imagine. It frequently happens like that.
I know people who've been out a long time, but the people whom they most loved in this life still do not talk to them; they have children who have stopped speaking to the; they have grandchildren whom they've never seen; friends with whom they spent the best years of their life who now are busy proving they were never friends. Betrayal is extraordinarily hard for some people to deal with, especially if the fall out continues to rub against a raw nerve day in and day out for years and years. My heart goes out to these lost souls. It's a high price to pay for spiritual freedom, for moral integrity. But they've paid it.
Well said! I too know a lot of people who have been hurting for a long time. Betrayal IS devastating and when broken families are involved, it is a daily pain.
Many times the disruption in their lives is just too much to bear alone and for them to get on with their lives. They have a daily reminder that they have flesh and blood that feels they are doing the righteous thing by disowning them.
Can you imagine how a mother feels after carrying a child for nine months, giving birth, nurturing, cuddling and adoring her baby, watching it grow to adulthood only to have that child shun her because this man-made org. tells them God wants them too? I've told others here to put themselves in that scenario for a minute, meditate on it, feel it. The hurt doesn't go away. Not seeing your children or grandchildren is devastating!
You say you had to enforce those silly rules. Many of those rules were far more destructive than silly. So how many lives and families did you disrupt or destroy? Maybe none but then again maybe more that you'll ever realize...Try to FEEL how they feel.
They don't just carry a grudge for the heck of it. The one you refer to for 30 years?--maybe he hasn't been able to find any comfort or direction until coming here. I've only been out for a short while, I've got healing to do but I'm not wallowing in self-pity. I'm trying to find some constructive direction here, but it doesn't come from criticism and put-downs. It comes from the encouraging words and suggestions directed to me and to others I read about.
You say less religion and more Jesus.
How about more qualities of Jesus' being shown..like not kicking the skinned and burdened down. He said his yoke was kindly. He didn't say 'get over it'.
Had Enough (of hard-heartedness)
Hi Had Enough,
Interesting how a person who has "Less religion and more Jesus,at the bottom of his posts,makes such an unchristlike callous judgement of others.......anyway,I've enjoyed reading your posts HE,Cheers,Tina
Sisters, I'm with you on this one!
It's a terrible thing but the Borg produced hard-hearted qualities in those who would lead the flock.
You know the American saying: "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!". It seems to permeate the Watchtower and the elders it produces. Those of us who were elders are having a hard enough time trying to adopt Christlike qualities, the 'new personality' if you will.
One C.O. said to me that the trouble with me was that I cared too much as an elder! Guess that says it all, don't you think?
First of all, I am not Jesus, that being said, let it be known that even Jesus had harsh words addressed to others, including the Apostle Paul.
It's not that I am heartless, you friends don't realized what my life was like .... however, I don't wallow in self-pity, I don't concern myself with the friends and families I left behind, if they chose the Society over my friendship, then fine, I know who my true friends are.
I never wandered around like a chicken without its head looking for acceptance, I chose to leave, my wife later joined me, but everyone else stayed, and we moved on, and have replaced what "friends" we lost with new ones, who do not judge!
I understand people get hurt, what I don't understand is all this whinning, "oh woe is me!" "look what the Society did to me!" C'mon man, get with it!
If you're offended by my words, I'm sorry, I really am!
Less Religion and more Jesus!
Your 3rd post reinforces the previous 2,as another example of callousness,and continued judgementalism....You equate ongoing pain and loss with self-pity...sorry,I don't see any heart showing....and Jesus didn't speak to the suffering callously and coldly......you seem like one of those folks who has left the wts,but the smug condemnatory attitude you display shows you still carry their thinking.
No you're definitely not jesus, but for one professing him as your exemplar,aren't you supposed to imitate his qualities of compassion,kindness, and concern for your fellow humans?
I haven't seen you in any of the threads encouraging or assisting with kind,compassionate words of support to those hurting in some fashion. I can imagine what type of elder you were....just from what you display here. Typical of those who leave and embrace another type of fundamentalism----same attitude,different name.
Maybe your motto should read Still no heart but new religion
You say you have new friends who don't judge? So,you want to be treated non-judgementally, while it's ok for you to judge others.
it's shameful that you're so dismissive of others experiences who don't share your worldview..........
Wow Tina, now YOU sit and judge me. No you don't know me, nor do you know what kind of person I was when I was active with the Witnesses. Let me just say that I joind the Witnesses with an open mind, and I left with an open mind.
I was the favorite among the rank and file, but was hated by my peers, because I did not "follow", I was understanding and did not treat others with disrepect or callousness.
My philospohy is this, whether you like it or not. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is a corporation, incorporated under the laws of the land. This corporation has rules and regulations, that it required to be obeyed, yoy and everyone else CHOSE to obey those rules, you weren't forced to do so, I never forced anyone to do what they didn't want to do, nor did I ever DF anyone for it.
I chose NOT to follow the rules anymore with a clear conscious, thus I removed myself, it's as simple as that, there are rules, you obey, if you choose not toobey than the rule makers have an obligation enforce their penalties, such penalties are excomunication. You didn't want to get DF'd, you should have stayed and obeyed, if you left, then you suffer the consequences of your actions. Simple cut and dry.
I'm sorry so many are hurting, sure, I don't like to see anyone hurt. But blaming the organization for ones dysfunctional lifestyle is in my opinion ludicrous!
Call me self-righteous, call me callous, and evil, I don't care! rules are rules, you follow, you don't, either way you pay!
Less Religion and more Jesus!
I agree with you on some points, but not others. I have read many posts here from people who have been out for a year or less, I think they are very emotional and need support, including yours and mine. However, I do think, as you do, that at some point, people have to get on with their lives. I don't know what the time frame is, but I think that at some point after one year people should moving on. However, to tell them that as directly as you do probably won't help them.
On the subject of disfellowshipping, I have read a lot of people's rage about how awful it is and how awful they are treated. When I left, I fully expected to be treated that way, so I was not surprised or outraged. After all, that is how I was taught and that is exactly what I would have done when I was a true believer. Therefore, I agree with you (but not your confrontive way you say it) that those that are treated as an outcaste should not be surprised. In fact, they should be surprised if they get only a modicum of kindness.
When I left, I pretty much got myself busy with getting an education and working. These activities were enormously satisfying and did not give me much time to dwell on the pains of leaving. When I left the society, and went to another society, that is, mainstream America, that's how I dealt with it and it worked for me. Did I have some emotional pain afterwards. Yes, but it was sporadic and situational and was not an oppresive yoke around my neck.
For those of you who are very angry, I would likde to say that anger works for awhile, but sustained anger poisons the one who carrys it.
One other point RR, I got the impression that your family was not in the religion from earlier posts you made. Here, I think you indicated they were, so I am not clear on this point. I think it is much harder on someone who was raised in the religion and all their family is there plus most of their freinds, than it is for someone who came in later and had a "safety net" on the outside when they left.
Thank you larc, Tina and Ozzie:
Your comments and support are greatly appreciated by me.
larc: You are right that anger poisins the one carrying it. I went to bed last night right after my last post and stewed most of the night over the words of RR. Reading his comments and those of StiLLinTruth in the Main forum, felt like my bandage had been ripped off and a knife stuck in the wound. The callous remark to make a whining forum was not needed here.
Tina: You said to RR: "Jesus didn't speak to the suffering callously and coldly......you seem like one of those folks who has left the wts,but the smug condemnatory attitude you display shows you still carry their thinking." Your words echoed the thoughts that made me toss and turn last night. I remember elders like that. Fortunately I do remember elders who display a loving concern for the flock as Ozzie expressed he felt.
Hi Ozzie: I agree that unfortunately the Borg. did produce hard-hearted qualities in those that would be leaders. And perhaps, without realizing it, that may be what has happened to you, RR. Either that or that's just normal for you and your circumstances are such that it wasn't hard for you to move on. No aging dearly loved mother to leave behind...no children to be torn away from..etc. etc.
I agree that we do have to adjust our lives to live with the hurt we have received but not everyone just left because they were fed up and moved on. Many have open wounds of family separation, parents from children, grandchildren. Life is short and to be forced to be separated from loved ones is many times unbearable.
Coming here and getting encouragement makes it easier. That doesn't mean we should or will spend the rest of our lives moaning to everyone here about it.
Part of healing is helping others, and I look to Jesus' example of how he treated the suffering. Yes he chastised his disciples when they showed a less that loving attitude to others. He expected them and all to treat the lowly and down-hearted with love and support not "buck up and get on with it".
So RR, as a Bible study leader, I hope you highlight Jesus' love and compassion and justice, and not the callous, attitude you showed last night.