Thanks 68storm, your observations are right on the money.
My Humble Uneducated Opinion!
by 68storm 31 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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myself
Thanks for your post 68storm. I think you may have even provided the next "new light" prophecy that they will come out with:
2.This MADE IN AMERICA cult, is only 125 years old, (there are plenty of birds that are older then that)
The new generation who will have witnessed the beginning of the last days. Before long these birds will be some of the only species left to have lived long enough to be within that timeframe.
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outnfree
(((((((((68storm))))))))))))
It's so nice to know that you're still out there mostly 'lurking'!
I am sorry to hear of your ex-wife's abuse. I don't think we had covered any of that when we met in Toronto.
I, too, think you did an excellent job with your essay, into which you obviously put much time and effort. I was taken aback just the other day reading Sirona's contribution to a newbie's thread where the traits of a cult were outlined. As Sirona aptly commented, the JW's fit most of the criteria -- who knew?!
I am one of the adult converts who wanted to believe in fairy tales [:|] once upon a time. Now I know better.
Hope to see you again some day! When's the next TO Apostofest?
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Beans
Great Thread 68, I couldn`t have summed it up better myself!
Cheers,
Beans
Canadian Overbeer
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mouthy
Well said my friend.... Its about time you said what you have been saying to me all along.
I have always thought ( after I got off the phone) Pity he dont write that to His love one///But I guess you have. Tell them the real story----They will tell you "she is off base........
See you tomorrow..
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68storm
Wow!! This totaly blows me away!
I was certain that my post might ruffle a few feathers. Either the ones that I had in mind, are not aware of this post, or they are still composing.
Krazylady:
I find it very frustrating that humans can be so conditioned to be such drones. I cannot understand the control administered by this group. I can only guess that it is a very calculated, slow process and it only gets worse with time. I do not want to add fuel to the Ray Franz fiasco. His wasn't the first book that I read but it was extremely concise and well written. I found myself becoming very irritable with some of his apoligetics concerning the friends. I understand the "Christian Mentality" about forgiving our "Tresspasers" but have a hard time believing that even the GB are mind controlled. They may be a bit dilussionary but surely, with all of the study material that is at their disposal, I cannot accept that they all would not have a "Crisis of Concience" of their own.
It always comes down to either POWER or GREED.
Celia:
If I had spent half of my time, in the last six years, studying the financial markets, instead of this cult, I would be basking in the sun, somewhere in one of the Pacific Islands, instead of being tormented by this group.
Dutchie:
It should not matter what the person's appearance is like. Even if you were left alone with Brad Pitt, a normal person might fantasize a bit, but generally would control themselves. Jws seem to picture as "Wordly" people as not having any more morality or control as your average K-9.
out4good3:
Thank you very much. You are absolutely right about their plight. They seem to get stronger in the faith if they are living hand to mouth. Watchtower instills in them that this is absolute proof that they are in jehovah's favour.
I recall one family that was in and also had a very successfull business. If I had a dollar for the number of times that they were reffered to as "Weak" because of their wealth.
larc:
I have always enjoyed most of your posts. The only thing that bothers me with you and others, is the time that you have been out. I was never in but am still obsessed with them. Will it ever stop? We have four children together, therefore I will always have some contact with them. I thank God (or whoever) that the 3 adult children are safe from the group. My concern is the 12 year old that lives with his mother.
Iwasyoungonce:
It is pretty sad brother.(don't mean this in jw sense)
I have met a few ex jw women that were physicaly abused by their wonderfull jw mates. It seems that the stories are all similar. The question from the loving elders seems to almost always be "What did you do to provoke the brother?" In another words "Why was your face in his fist?"
think41self:
Well, a big hello to you too!
I am already counting the days until we can depart for the "Sunshine State" again. As you may know, we have been doing it for more than a decade now and the 1400 miles get shorter every year. "Too bad the weather seems to get colder every year also."
I have spent six years in order to help my ex but it seems that I did more harm than good. This summer she admitted to me (for the first time since she fled), that she still loved me. I tried to be very gentle in planting seeds that I thought would grow but it made it worse. She is suddenly engaged to a "brother". She has admitted to me that she does not love him, but she will learn to love him. What kind of nonsense is that? She said that he loves jehovah and her very much and that is enough for her.
Please be sure and say hello to hubby and Dana for me. I will certainly try and contact you during our stay in Florida. My son is also looking forward to seeing you guys again.
Crownboy:
I must agree with you. Maybe my point was not that clear. I was just trying to say exactly what you said. I was always reminded by my ex that I have had contact with jws for many years. I should be aware that they are the best people on earth. Maybe I am slow, but I failed to comprehend this. She spent numerous hours trying to help almost suicidal friends from doing something drastic.
Dantleman:
I appreciate your vote of confidence.
myself:
Do you think that I may be inspired?
outnfree:
How are you? We did not manage to get together as often this year! Or maybe I missed some of them.
Can you believe that the wts can publish the traits of a cult, in order to warn the friends, and it pretty well fits them the most. I know I have read about the watchtower glasses, but I still have a hard time with this concept.
Hope to see you next summer.
Beans:
How are you buddy? It must be great to be the Canadian Overbeer as opposed to the American counterpart. It costs me a fortune when in Florida just for Canadian suds. I have to be pretty thirsty to drink down a Bud.
mouthy:
You are my adopted everything.(Mother, aunt, cousin and most of all my sanity saviour.) Oh! I think that I just commited a mortal sin, (for the benefit of non Catholic Christians, this means a very bad sin) having put you up on a pedestal.
Looking forward to seeing you tonight. Whats up with the snow already?
68storm
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mouthy
Opening the window to let out my chest----OOps I forget how big it is,well my head!! Opps I guess that wont go through the window either .!!Oh well forget it.!!!I will say it is an honor __oops there I sin again!!!Mustn't give honor to anyone..Thanks 68 Your a wonderful fellow- Of course your wife loves you- she cant help it- but she MUST obey those men at Brooklyn.......Just as they used to throw their children to the false God in the olden times- Folks are doing the same thing today- be they husband, Mothers,Fathers,wives,kids, Nothing new under the sun......
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Hug)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
If I were 45 years younger -Your the kind I would GO for ....XX
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Prisca
68storm,
Excellent post! Don't apologise for your perceived lack of education, nothing you wrote indicates any problem with your reasoning and understanding abilities!
You bring out some really good points, but I wish to comment on one:
1.No matter how you cut it, there has to be something lacking initially, for one to believe or wish to become part of this nonsense.
It's easy for somone who is looking from the outside to say this, but it is hard for such a person to understand the mind-set and brainwashing of a person born into the religion.
I was a 3rd generation JW ie. my grandmother was a JW, my mother and father were JWs, and I was raised as a JW too. I stayed in until I was 30 years old. Until I started questioning the religion around the age of 27, I fully believed I was in the "right" religion. And I was discouraged from even considering other religions, or the fact that the JWs might be wrong, because doing so would displease God, indicating I had lost faith in him. Why? Because the WTS was held up to be on equal terms to God. I believed in God, and I feared doing something that brought his disapproval, so I did what I was told. It took 27 years for me to begin questioning what I was taught, yet once I did, there was no stopping me, and I finally left 3 years ago, and it's something I have not regretted!
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Mulan
Great subject. I would love to print out your essay and have my mother read it, but I doubt she would get past the first sentence.
I would like to comment on something. Those of us who were raised as JW's, tend to think we had no choice and actually DIDN'T choose that religion. I used to say the same thing. But.........we did eventually choose it. One of my sons chose not to be a JW...........he was born and raised in it too, and was even baptized, but at age 17, he quit. As he grew as a man, and "found himself", he knew he wasn't going to be a JW. It wasn't for him, no matter how much he loved his family. Another son really didn't want to be a JW, but he fell in love with a pioneer, married her and to keep the peace, he was going along with it, doing very little. All of my four children and all their mates, are now not JW's,...............thankfully. It didn't happen all at once either.
So, my point is that even if we are born and raised "in the truth", there is something about our personality, our history, that makes us susceptible to becoming part of a cult or whatever nonsense you want to call it. Until we learn that about ourselves, we may jump into another cult, or jump onto another bandwagon, touting another cause of some sort. It's something we need to learn about ourselves, if we don't want to repeat that pattern.
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caligirl
Hello 68storm.. I think that your post shows excellent insight into the world of JW's. I also wish to comment on your thought that there has to be something lacking for one to get involved. For those of us that are raised in it and know nothing else, it is intitally no different that for a child who grows up in any religion. You know only what you have been exposed to, and therefore have no basis of comparison. Some of us are fortunate enough to have enough reasoning capacity to want to get out once we are old enough to see it all for what it really is, but for others raised in it, fear and denial keep them from ever realising that, and still others are totally happy with that controlled environment and remain oblivious to the fact that anything is wrong. For me, and my siblings, we are all of the fortunate group who were able to see through it and left as soon as we were able.
For those who choose as adults to become a JW, I am certainly inclined to agree that there is something lacking in their life that causes them to be willing to get involved. My parents both grew up in less than ideal circumstances in their families (to say the least) which I firmly beleive made them very vulnerable to the idea that 1975 would bring about an end to the world that had dealt them so much pain. Add to the mix that they could beleive that their children would never have to go to school or deal with anything that they had lived through, and that the highly controlled way of life would certainly provide their children with the stability they had both lacked growing up and you have the perfect making of an ideal follower. Sadly, they both remain to this day, a pioneer and an elder.
Edited by - caligirl on 3 November 2002 1:0:22