confused, scared..you name it

by Cyre 31 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Silverleaf
    Silverleaf

    Welcome Cyre, you write:

    if what I'm learning is right....

    It is not right. Please stick around and read some of the accounts of people here, you will see the way JWs twist scripture to their own end. If you feel the faith you have been in is not right for you, the best thing to do is to study several others, not just the Watchtower doctrine. If you believe that you should have a personal relationship with your creator, you don't need the Watchtower to intercede for you or tell you how to live your life. If your friend is truly a friend he will understand this and give you room to explore your true feelings about faith.

    Good luck,

    Silverleaf

  • Shakita
    Shakita

    Hi Cyre:

    When you become a Jehovah's Witness you are entering a business arrangement. You will be asked 2 questions upon being baptized that the JW religion will hold against you if you ever decide to leave the religion. Ask your friend about these 2 questions and about what they will mean to your entire life if you decide to leave. Unlike other religions, the Jehovah's Witnesses do not LET you leave just because YOU want to. Remember, this is a business arrangement between the WTBS and you. If you break that contract with them, your life will become a living hell. They do not like it when their members disagree with them, or decide to leave.

    You need to ask your friend alot more questions about disfellowshipping, shunning, marking, and how families are torn apart by this publishing company who hides behind the guise of a religion. BE INFORMED, before you make a decision that will affect the rest of your life and those you love.

    Take Care.

    Mrs. Shakita

  • Sentinel
    Sentinel

    Hello there and welcome.

    I think it's perfectly alright to question one's faith. This is a good thing. However, having had the JW experience for many years and finally getting out (at great personal cost), I just want you to be aware of what they will expect from you. The JW's use cult-like tactics in controlling people and separating family members. If you should decide later on, that you do not wish to be a JW any longer, you cannot simply walk away. They will not let you do that. You will be marked, labeled, shunned and rejected--sometimes by those you have come to love the most. They will label you as an apostate if you even wish to discuss other religions or beliefs. They will label you if you speak about books that you've read, other than the JW books and bibles. They will get into every crevice of your life, and they will have a rule for everything under the sun. They will tell you that they get direct "light" (knowledge) from god, but their teachings fail over and over, for which they have complex reasonings as to why.

    Please read more of the experiences in this forum of how damaging the organization is. They paint a pretty picture, but it is not reality. Their doctrines and teachings have failed over and over again, yet they will not recognize that they need to re-access how affective they really are. They teach love, but do not practice it.

    Be wise. You're feelings of being confused, scared, etc. are right on the mark! Listen to those warnings!

    Love and Light

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Cyre,

    Welcome! I think that you must already be doubting the JWs if you have decided to post here.

    When analysing a religion you will need to look at the Cult Evaluation information available online. This will highlight to you the things about the religion that are questionable. The JWs present an innocent image, but that this not the full story.

    Good luck and blessings with your spiritual quest,

    Sirona

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html

    I found this for you taken from the site above. I've added my own comments about JWs in red.

    The Advanced Bonewits Cult Danger Evaluation Frame
    (version 2.6)

    Factors:

    1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10
    Low   High

    1

    Internal Control: Amount of internal political and social power exercised by leader(s) over members; lack of clearly defined organizational rights for members.

    There is A LOT of internal control over members - mainly to do with disfellowshipping rule which prevents someone leaving unless they are willing to be shunned.

    1

    _________________________

    2

    External Control: Amount of external political and social influence desired or obtained; emphasis on directing members external political and social behavior.

    The JWs Say you should be "without spot from the world" this prevents you being involved in social groups who are not JW and any social events that are not JW. Also, you cannot celebrate normal holidays.

    2

    _________________________

    3

    Wisdom/Knowledge Claimed by leader(s); amount of infallibility declared or implied about decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations; number and degree of unverified and/or unverifiable credentials claimed.

    The JWs, although not saying they are infallible, DO say that they are the ONLY group directed by Christ. The words of the Watchtower Governing Body are followed to the letter.

    3

    _________________________

    4

    Wisdom/Knowledge Credited to leader(s) by members; amount of trust in decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations made by leader(s); amount of hostility by members towards internal or external critics and/or towards verification efforts.

    The JWs (as stated above) believe that they are the only group approved by God at this time. They follow the Watchtower without question. Those who speak out are shunned and disfellowshipped. Reading literature other than JW literature is strongly discouraged.

    4

    _________________________

    5

    Dogma: Rigidity of reality concepts taught; amount of doctrinal inflexibility orfundamentalism; hostility towards relativism and situationalism.

    The JWs say that their teachings are scriptural, when actually many many rules are going beyond scripture. Blood doctrine is one example - they now actually approve the use of blood components but not whole blood. This is beyond scripture and harms people.

    5

    _________________________

    6

    Recruiting: Emphasis put on attracting new members; amount of proselytizing; requirement for all members to bring in new ones.

    Well, this one is obvious!

    6

    _________________________

    7

    Front Groups: Number of subsidiary groups using different names from that of main group, especially when connections are hidden.

    This is not happening in JWs as far as I know, however I do know that most congregations claim to work independently of the Governing Body, yet they are actually just following the Watchtower society's direction in everything - right down to elders phoning up New York if there is a problem.

    7

    _________________________

    8

    Wealth: Amount of money and/or property desired or obtained by group; emphasis on members donations; economic lifestyle of leader(s) compared to ordinary members.

    The JW organisation is a multimillion dollar company. They own numerous properties and although they don't ask for money for magazines in certain countries - what they won't tell you is that this arrangement is so that they can get more tax benefits as a "charity"

    8

    _________________________

    9

    Sexual Manipulation of members by leader(s) of non-tantric groups; amount of control exercised over sexuality of members in terms of sexual orientation, behavior, and/or choice of partners.

    There are rules about who you may marry as a JW and many people are forced to marry too soon due to pressure. Sex practices not approved by the group will be met with disciplinary action. Other sexual practices that have been concealed however are paedophilia and rape by the elders in some congregations.

    9

    _________________________

    10

    Sexual Favoritism: Advancement or preferential treatment dependent upon sexual activity with the leader(s) of non-tantric groups.

    10

    _________________________

    11

    Censorship: Amount of control over members access to outside opinions on group, its doctrines or leader(s).

    A JW is not allowed to read opposing literature and is not allowed to speak to a former member. Reading books about other religions is strongly discouraged, and attending another church (even once) could result in disfellowshipping.

    11

    _________________________

    12

    Isolation: Amount of effort to keep members from communicating with non-members, including family, friends and lovers.

    JWs disfellowship former members, meaning that current JWs cannot speak to them. The watchtower also tells JWs that those who are not JW are "bad associations" and that we should avoid contact with non-jws. Even family are not as important as other JWs.

    12

    _________________________

    13

    Dropout Control: Intensity of efforts directed at preventing or returning dropouts.

    Very intense "rules" to stop people leaving. Threat of losing your friends and family if you choose another faith. If you are JW and you speak out on a doctrinal issue, you are viewed as "gangrene" and are thrown out of the congregation - this is to prevent you telling the current members the truth.

    13

    _________________________

    14

    Violence: Amount of approval when used by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s).

    There is a hierarchy within JWs. If you are a "pioneer" (which means spending lots of time preaching 70 hours a month I think) then you are given special priveledges within the congregation and are invited to all social gatherings. If you are not a pioneer and don't spend much time preaching, you may be shunned. Men are encouraged to take "responsibility" in the congregation and are praised for performing menial tasks. Those who wish to simply attend without this extra work are considered "spiritually weak"

    14

    _________________________

    15

    Paranoia: Amount of fear concerning real or imagined enemies; exaggeration of perceived power of opponents; prevalence of conspiracy theories.

    Oh this definately happens in JWs! Firstly, they show the "world" of non-jws as evil and dangerous. yes, the world is dangerous, but this is emphasised so much that JWs are AFRAID to leave the pseudo security of the JW organisation. Then there is the preoccupation with demons. JWs think that if you are not protected by Jehovah, demons will possess you. They may even get into your home via items bought second hand, or whatever. This paranoia is so extreme.

    15

    _________________________

    16

    Grimness: Amount of disapproval concerning jokes about the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).

    JWs laugh at JW jokes. :)

    16

    _________________________

    17

    Surrender of Will: Amount of emphasis on members not having to be responsible for personal decisions; degree of individual disempowerment created by the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).

    The JWs will follow the advice of the society for EVERY decision. Try asking your JW friend for advice on something fairly complex, and they will refer you to a recent watchtower on the subject. Independent thinking is actually discouraged.

    17

    _________________________

    18

    Hypocrisy: amount of approval for actions which the group officially considers immoral or unethical, when done by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s); willingness to violate the groups declared principles for political, psychological, social, economic, military, or other gain.

    They are false prophets but condemn other religions for being such. They harbour and protect paedophiles and rapists, they were an NGO for the United Nations whilst at the same time declaring that the UN was the "wild beast", the Watchtower originated with a man who was involved in the occult - yet they criticise other groups who have such associations....the list goes on.

    The JWs are a cult.

    Sirona

  • Tinkerbell4125
    Tinkerbell4125

    Cyre, you're studying with the witnesses?

    Be afraid, be very afraid.

  • SloBoy
    SloBoy

    Cyre,

    Something that might help.... let's see,.....it's a book I believe,....oh yeah "CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE" by Ray Franz.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I have noticed that people feel confused and scared when they know they have a tough decision to make, but dont want to. I am guessing you are scared to tell your parents you are re-examining your faith, and the fallout consequences of that. If you declared you are changing beliefs, what would their reaction be? I imagine most parents (who cared about this sort of thing) would have a big fit, and then get over it. Part of becoming an independent adult is developing your own opinions on things, and these will not always be the same as what our parents hope for. Tough for them. That is part of growing up.

    It is good to spend time thinking about what you really believe. I suggest, however, that you spend more time in personal study, without any ones influence. I think that would be most helpful for you in considering what you really believe and to fully develop your independence. Before you leave the Orthodox Coptic Church, why dont you find out more about it, and why they believe what they do? At least then, you will be better informed on what you are leaving. Here are some handy links:

    http://www.coptic.net/

    Nicene Creed

    I notice the Coptics are proud of their Cross. The JWs believe the cross is a pagan symbol, and that Jesus really died on a torture stake. Their beliefs in this do not stand up under careful scrutiny. Another poster here, Leoalia, prepared a great study on this issue, which you might appreciate.

    Research on Torture Stake or Cross

    You asked for scriptures to help you make a decision. There several key scriptures that I use as a measure to see if a belief or a behaviour is Christian or not. I use these as my internal compass.

    • Matthew 22:37-40
    • Matthew 7:17-20
    • Galatians 5:22-23

    Ask your friend if 1 John 3:3 applies to him, or you, or the anointed? By the way, the fallout in a JW home is far more severe. A rebelling child is shunned, including non-communication except for the most essential tasks. This is what the parents are taught to do.

  • LB
    LB

    Cyre of course they can back up everything they say with a scripture. They can twist any scripture. I can honestly say that getting baptized was the worst thing I've ever done.

    Cyre they've made tons of prophecies over the years and they've gotten every one wrong. Not one right. They've claimed to have been a prophet, then changed the meaning of prophet to teacher. They will love you to death while you are studying. You'll never find a kinder group of people, while you are studying. Then as soon as you take the plunge you'll find out what it's really like. The most judgemental group of people on the planet. Want to date someone? You have to have a champerone, even if you're an adult. You can't be trusted enough to be left alone with your boyfriend, ever. If you are alone with him for a period of say 2 hours, they will assume you have had sex and can disfellowship you and shun you.

    Run Cyre, run fast and far.

  • scumrat
    scumrat

    Cyre, Once they love bomb you, they will tell you that many will say they are a cult. They will also tell you that Satan will use your friends and family to keep you from the " TRUTH " !!!! Please be aware that this is a tactic they use. Don't listen to their bull about faith. Ask a lot of questions and have them answer them with facts backing up those answers. And don't buy their crap if they show you from their liturature, they print it to say whatever they want it to say.

    scumrat

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