I do not know why you are trying to throw suspicion on Ray Franz, his motives and actions..
I'd say you are doing the same thing, not to me, but to Bill Bowens and the Silentlambs movement. But that's just my opinion though.
However since you mentioned "motives". First of all, let me remind you that "motives" of people, are ONLY fully understood by God Almighty. Therefore, I would caution you to remember that fact, when referring to myself or any one else you have chosen to personally attack. This thread's TITLE that YOU, Carl O. Jonsson started condemns you of what you say I have done.
No, I need not look any farther, Brother Jonsson. Yes, the title of your thread is convenient enough, "Bill Bowen's attack on Ray Franz".
How dare you, say such a thing?
Now, I must ask you, WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING BILL BOWENS?
Now, I see that this is also a "fact" to be reckoned with.
It is you, brother Jonsson, that have launced this attack, is that not so?
If Bill Bowens asked for your help and assistance, if he asked RV Franz for his assistance, what is the problem?
"Can't we just all get along?", as Rodney King said.
Listen, why not show a little SOLIDARITY here my brother. Solaridarity with Bill Bowens, Brother Jonsson?
Solidarity with Bill Bowens and the Silentlambs movement.
But you and RV Franz have an "agenda" I see. And I hope Bill Bowens really reads this because here is the punch line:
You people teach, Jehovah's Witnesses are just another religion. And that means, the presumed "Child Molestation" Problem is exactly the same, as in all other religions.
That's what you and RV Franz teach.
You say JWs are just like any other religions, right?
Well, Bill Bowens gave ten (10) good reasons to show Jehovah's Witnesses ARE NOT like any other religion that has the problem of Child Molestation. Can you please for the sake of this Discussion board and of course for Bill Bowens edification, address these 10 questions please? I will quote them below:
1. Do other church members have the shepherd dominated mentality JWs have?
2. Do other churches allow sex offenders complete anonymity within the church when it is discovered?
3. Do other churches advise that the minister has the last word when molestation issues arise?
4. Do other churches lead members to believe their investigatorial measures are the best way to determine if a person has committed a crime?
5. Do other churches advise the best way to help a troubled person is to tell them to endure and wait for Gods Kingdom to solve their problems?
6. Do other churches take a person who is troubled because of molestation, who has begun self-destructive behaviors and disfellowship them, ostracizing them from the people who would be in the best position to help them?
7. Do other churches require two witnesses to the actual event of molestation before taking any disciplinary measures?
8. Do other churches threaten parents of molested children with disfellowshipment if they try to warn other members whose children may be in danger?
9. Do other churches remove ministers who warn parents of the danger of a certain pedophile molesting their children?
10. Do other churches provide zero training when it comes to how to direct a molested child to get the help they need?
Now, Brother Jonsson, if the answer above is "No", for any of these questions, that's any of them -- then you and RV Franz are wrong!
Did you get that, Brother Jonsson?
I said, you and RV Franz ARE WRONG!!!
And you are MISLEADING the people who listen to you. You are misleading any JWs or ex-JWs that considers you both as wise sages of our time too, and starts to ADOPT your viewpoints as you have so eloquently expressed above..
So Brother, you are wrong, pure and simple.
And this thread that you have started is also wrong too!
Why can't you acknowledge the great work that Silentlambs has accomplished? Why? Did Bill Bowens, all of a sudden, "steal your thunder" from you and RV Franz?
Listen, Bill Bowens has proven to you, the WTS and anybody else who challenges him, that the Child Molestation problem among JWs is collosal, monumental and completely unique. Those ten (10) questions shown above, that evidently you can't answer are the proof!
Perhaps, that is why you are so hotly bothered by the Silentlambs movement. What's the matter, did Bill Bowens "steal your thunder"? You guys got all of the "press" before Bill, right? So now we have a "new dog" in town now, huh? Bill Bowens is the "man" now, and the two of you, you and Ray just can't stand it, is that so?
As he realized that my conclusions were correct, how can you claim that he encouraged or participated in the widespread defamation of my name and character as a result of my research?
Where is that statement in what I wrote, Brother Jonsson? Please point it out to me. You see, now you are embellishing, aren't you?
Listen my friend, I have no "beef" with you, personally. You live in Sweden. I live in America. So, you have no idea of the power and influence of RV Franz as a member of the Governing Body during those eventful years of 1971-80. You say, "Yeah, Ray told me and Ray told me that, and he said this to the Governing Body, and said that, and he did this or that". And Ray went to the G.B. and fought for me", and so on and on. Pleeeeeeeease, give me a break!
Ask yourself, when E. Dunlap was being disfellowshiped, RV Franz was no where to be found, was he? That ought to tell you something.
But hey I know you and he have a good thing going, distributing your "message", and all these days. So, I know, know you and RV Franz are really, busy "these days". I can understand your "business" partnership too. And now I'm beginning to understand why Bill Bowens and the pressing, pertainent issues he raises are not quite so conducive your "ministry" and RV Franz's, these days. I understand why Bill Bowens, is not quite, your "cup of tea". I understand. (Bill, I hope you are reading this.)
I can understand, the whys of it all, and why really giving true support and showing solidarity with Bill Bowens in Silentlambs movement would not be the "right" thing to do, these days. We can see it. The real support just isn't there, based upon your post above. Even though Bill has said over and over, he wants "peace" you brothers. And he wants all current active JWs along with exJW "brothers" to work together, to accomplish something, you guys just "turn your heads" and busy yourself "doing your thing".
I can see you and Ray are not behind him 100 percent. But, before you posted, I wondered, why?
As I ask you now, why are you attacking Bill Bowens? That is my question to you. If you have to answer "No" to those questions he poses above, then Bill Bowens has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, Jehovah's Witnesses as a organization, ARE DIFFERENT from all other religions, that have this problem. They are completely different. They are a "Pedophile Paradise", just as Bill says. But of course, if that were true, that would mean that again, perhaps you and RV Franz were wrong in your "theory" that JWs are just another religion, wouldn't it? And that's what you two have been teaching, isn't it?
I say to you, instead of attacking Bill Bowens, as you have with the creation of this thread, brother Jonsson, you should be conciliatory and try to bring all current JWs and ex-JWs TOGETHER, instead of posting what you have above against Bill Bowens and the Silentlambs movement. You, Carl O. Jonsson should have deep RESPECT for what Bill Bowens, Barbara Anderson and the Silentlambs Movement is all about!
I say Brother Jonsson, it would be nice if we could "STAND TOGETHER" for once, as a united people, and see "eye-into-eye" for once as exJWs and active JWs. If we could see what Bill Bowens was saying, over there in Kentucky. And work together as a team, rather "fight" between us, as I see you are clearly doing, so busy trying to protect Ray's reputation and all, so you can distribute MORE BOOKS, then, maybe we just might get somewhere, for a change. I believe that is what Jehovah really, really wants, don't you? -- See Isa. 52:8.
Why can't we just become "friends of peace", like Jesus said? -- Luke 10:6
But unfortunately as far as RV Franz goes, you will never ever convince me that RV Franz is anything, more than an "escape artist", since I know way too much about him and his unique "ministry", while ON the Governing Body, and after leaving the JW Organization. But you are in Sweden, and were not there in 1971-1980. I understand that.
So, I say believe what you want about what transpired during those years at Bethel, all the while they were "barbequing" you. Thats your business, so means nothing to me.
But, I tell you this, people that are more "in the know" about this situation, know just how powerful RV Franz was back in those years. And how he certainly got a "a ringside seat" when the Governing Body and Associates were BARBEQUING YOU in 1978. I suggest you should read my thread on "RV Franz revealed" my friend. Its on the Main Board called "Friends", because in my opinion, I'm afraid you have been seriously "hoodwicked" by one of the best.