Bill Bowen's attack on Ray Franz

by COJ 113 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Bill Bowen wrote:

    "Our conclusion is that child molestation is no more common among the Witnesses than in the community at large."

    I rest my case your honor...

    silentlambs

    Everytime I see your name I will always think of this inane post. To me this sums up your whole discussion board manner quite nicely. You leave me no choice but to think that while you are a hard worker you are also a small man. Two qualities found among many of those who are members of that elite group you were once a part of: elders.

    I think you are still operating in that mode.

    Btw, the picture we keep seeing is one of Bill Bowen heading the charge but there are many who work in the shadows aren't there?, many who are content to help the silentlambs financially and otherwise. You have not done this alone, there would be no Silentlambs Org. if it weren't for the many nameless people who support you. Stop and smell the roses Bill Bowen, you are just a guy helping a good cause nothing more, just like many other guys and gals who have worked hard all their lives for good causes.

    How is the candle business doing?

    IW

  • silentlambs
    silentlambs

    This was written almost two years ago and explains the absurdity of saying the problem of molestation within JW's is no different than main stream religion. The full text is posted on my website under "answer to questions" and has been since day one of its inception. If the problem of molestion is no different than main stream religion then silentlambs has no basis to exist and all the news coverage is just picking on a poor little religion. I don't think so.

    silentlambs

    "All these things together contribute to the reason I believe there is a pedophile paradise within the Watchtower Organization. We recruit troubled persons to be members and accept them in with no questions asked. A pedophile that becomes a witness will be able to move about freely with the benefit of his past being buried with no one knowing. If the pedophile then starts to molest Jehovahs Witness children who are taught to submit completely to adult authority, the children are easily intimidated to not say anything for years. If any do come forward, the pedophile simply denies the charge and remains "innocent" from the congregations standpoint. Should things become uncomfortable for the pedophile, they can simply move and start all over again with a fresh batch of children. Witnesses have absolute trust in one another, it is called a spiritual paradise" in a wicked world. Their children are only allowed to associate with one another. A gathering will only have Jehovahs Witnesses in attendance. Any extra circular activity will only feature Jehovahs Witnesses with each other. The typical pedophile will invariably have ample opportunity to take advantage of the trust of unknowing fellow members.

    Do other churches operate like this?

    Do other church members have the shepherd dominated mentality JWs have?

    Do other churches allow sex offenders complete anonymity within the church when it is discovered?

    Do other churches advise that the minister has the last word when molestation issues arise?

    Do other churches lead members to believe their investigatorial measures are the best way to determine if a person has committed a crime?

    Do other churches advise the best way to help a troubled person is to tell them to endure and wait for Gods Kingdom to solve their problems?

    Do other churches take a person who is troubled because of molestation, who has begun self-destructive behaviors and disfellowship them, ostracizing them from the people who would be in the best position to help them?

    Do other churches require two witnesses to the actual event of molestation before taking any disciplinary measures?

    Do other churches threaten parents of molested children with disfellowshipment if they try to warn other members whose children may be in danger?

    Do other churches remove ministers who warn parents of the danger of a certain pedophile molesting their children?

    Do other churches provide zero training when it comes to how to direct a molested child to get the help they need?

    In answering the above questions, if you feel there is no difference between Jehovahs Witnesses and how other churches handle these matters then we could be considered to have a similar ratio of child molestations to other churches. If on the other hand, you see a difference, then you have to accept a much higher ratio of child molestation among Jehovahs Witnesses than mainstream Christianity. It is morally and ethically wrong to perpetrate a Policy that hurts children. After reviewing the material above I hope this can help you to be better informed, educated as to the nature of the problem, and see the need to require the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to rethink this issue, to change their policy and realize that protecting children is the highest priority in an Organization that wants to lead people to worship God."

  • RR
    RR

    Hmmmm ... can a house devided stand on it's own?

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    BB,

    Ever hear of the Catholic Church?

    In fact, I believe you have been riding on the coattails of their negative media attention, without which the JW problem would not have been so interesting to the news media.

    You are one funny man, BB.

    IW

  • Nordic
    Nordic

    IslandWomen,

    I bet that you still attend all the meeting's, in the King dom hall.

    BOOZO

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Nordic,

    IslandWomen,

    I bet that you still attend all the meeting's, in the King dom hall.

    BOOZO

    I have not seen the inside of a KH in over 4 years. Thanks to Simon and his wife I enjoy the precious freedom of free speech. I'm happy to see that you do also.

    IW

  • COJ
    COJ

    As expected, the reactions to my post have been blended, some of you have been encouraging, some negative. Here are just a few comments, and they may be my last ones on this topic, as time does not permit me to be drawn into a lengthy debate. I have already stated my position as clearly as I can.

    The signature "gsark" states that it was he/she, not Bill Bowen, that attacked Ray Franz in the post dated October 9, 2002 at 7:26. If this is correct, I owe Bill an excuse, of course. What is your real name, "gsark"? To use a signature for attacking a well known and widely respected person is like shooting at him/her from behind an ambush. A Swedish debate forum I am visiting sometimes had to set up the rule that, if somebody is going to smear the name and character of someone else, he/she has to step forward with his/her real name, thus showing that he/she is prepared to personally take the full responsibility for what is said and is willing to present the evidence on which the statements is based. This turned out to improve the forum considerably.

    Deliberately or not, you who use the signature "expatbrit" have a tendency to misconstrue my statements. For example, you claim I argued that it is up to the victims to go to the police, thus leaving out the second part of my statement, that also "those who have evidence on such cases" [of child molestation] have the responsibility to reveal what they know. Such persons may include, for example, elders. I explicitly wrote that "to conceal a crime is also a crime." You further indicate that Im not willing to help the victims. This charge is unfounded and false. When a person seeks my help in a matter, whatever it is, I feel a responsibility to assist and try to do this as best as I can. I do not really understand your attitude, "expatbrit".

    Carl Olof Jonsson

  • Nordic
    Nordic

    IslandWomen,

    You are not better than the JW elder's, Protecting child abuser. The way you behave.

    BOOZO

  • Gedanken
    Gedanken

    I think COJ's point is, if I interpret it correctly, that no one has any special responsibility to become involved in the child abuse issue unless one either (a) has direct knowledge of some relevant event or (b) one wants to. COJ has done tremendously valuable work in exposing the doctrinal silliness of many JW teachings - in particular those regarding chronology. In fact, the argument could be made that this is a much more serious long-term issue for the JWs than is child abuse, in the sense that COJ's work destroys the very basis of the religion whereas, as COJ notes, child abuse in religious organizations -and society - is widespread; the issue with the JWs is not whether it happens but the degree to which the religion covers up molestation. So it is a question of "degree" not "whether or not" and so people, COJ, Ray Franz, Bill Bowen and others must be allowed to express their opinions and put their efforts where they will. A simple blanket condemnation of someone who diasgrees with a particular position in some details is unfair - especially if the people involved are being named publicly.

    The Pope has recently defended their equivalent of the "two-witness" rule for priests accused of molestation and the authorities are not really responding with legal action. So the only redress with the JWs is to do what Bill is doing; generate publicity and private or class action lawsuits. For those who choose not to get involved directly, it isn't a question of supporting or not supporting silentlambs in many cases - it is more a question of deciding where to put one's efforts; in particular, without special knowledge of child abuse within the JWs it's unclear what anyone can do that will be very effective; if Ray Franz had special knowledge then he would tell us that, unless we think the man is a liar.

    It strikes me that while silentlambs has been very effective in helping victims and pressuring the WTS to reform, that perhaps some see it as a mechanism for bringing the WTS "down." That isn't its primary purpose.

    I'd also add that the blood issue is also an example of child abuse, and more; as is the psychological damage that many JW children and adults suffer. To single out a single issue as the touchstone of one's integrity while implicitly ignoring these other problems which COJ and Ray Franz have been pioneers in addressing is unkind, to say the least.

    Gedanken

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    COJ,

    The poster who made the statement below along with other slanderous remarks regarding Ray Franz is "silentlambs" aka Bill Bowen.

    but his silence regarding abuse causes me to question his ability to stand for what is morally and ethically right.

    This was on the October 9, 2002 thread entitled, "Ray Franz Key Witness?"

    Bill Bowen is responsible for what he posts, unless of course he is a puppet controlled by gsark and others. But that is a whole new topic!

    Good to "meet" you,

    IW

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