Ray Franz Key Witness?!

by qwerty 121 Replies latest jw friends

  • IslandWoman

    BB wrote about Ray Franz,

    if he continues to hold to his point of view, then perhaps a few phone calls might help him to see the need to make an adjustment in his thinking.

    Oh that was so good Bill! Classic Watchtower speak: "Help him to see the need to make an adjustment in his thinking" WOW! You just don't get it do you?

    When you look in the mirror, who do you see? God?


  • plmkrzy

    Gee first HS and now Ray Franz I suppose is a WT spy also?


    Is there NO ONE safe from you accusations??? When will you finally turn on the actual real victims and start accusing them of being against you?

    Edited by - plmkrzy on 9 October 2002 15:56:53

  • Pathofthorns

    If I was Ray, I would certainly be happy these days to have distanced myself from the Silentlambs movement. It would seem that while it is striving for something worthwhile, support for it seems to be coming with alot of strings attached.

    Ray wrote alot of how organizations start out with good intentions but how they inevitably seem to corrupt. I wouldn't put it past him that he chose to stay away from something given what many have interpreted as causes for concern.

    You also need to keep in mind that this whole child abuse thing within the organization has taken quite a while for many to grasp, including myself. The policy does seem somewhat reasonable on the surface and maybe Ray hasn't explored it in full detail. Maybe he has long moved on from Jehovah's Witnesses? Who knows?

    All I can say is that Bill is quickly undoing his own support very quickly and whatever good he has accomplished. Demands for "loyalty oaths" and calling people names for not agreeing 100% with him is way out of line - and now this with Ray Franz? Give me a break.


  • MrMoe

    Phone calls? To an old man? What the hell?!?!? What, you want people to call and harass and push an old man? For God's sake, leave him alone! Are you trying to give him a heart attack?

    You cannot force everybody to fight your cause.

  • DJ

    I find this surprising. It is sad to think that Ray would agree with the policy. I admit, I don't know for sure, myself but I don't think that Bill is lying about it. Bill...........gosh.....has he given you his reasons for his continued support of this policy that he helped write??

    I am aware of his age....... but I am friends with a wonderful man who is around the same age, who knows Ray. I think I'll e-mail him and see what he can find out. They are friends (both xjw's) so I do not think that it would be upsetting to him, ok? Dj

  • Reborn2002

    If Ray has changed his opinion that he gave to me about Wt policy I would welcome the change, if he continues to hold to his point of view, then perhaps a few phone calls might help him to see the need to make an adjustment in his thinking.

    The man wrote two novels exposing the corruption and contradictions found within the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. He also gave up his cushy position as a member of the Governing Body in doing so.

    He also stated publicly in an interview that he "was sorry" for all he had done while a JW.

    He has not been a JW for several years. You resigned as an elder a little over two years ago, and were disfellowshipped only a matter of months ago. For those years you served as an elder, do you hold yourself to the same standard and consider yourself accountable for shielding child molestors by applying WT policy?

    By your own words you have admitted that he has said nothing to the media, and has instead chosen to say silent in this regard. Now you are saying that he needs to make an adjustment in his thinking? Hillary_Step's comment that you have begun travelling down a road of "my way or the highway" is now manifesting itself by virtue of your comments.

    In my opinion he is covering up for something he does not wish to reveal.

    He wrote a book that was dynamic in what it reveals, but his silence regarding abuse causes me to question his ability to stand for what is morally and ethically right.

    Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom speak for themselves. The man gave up his position as a member of the Governing Body and exposed them.. now you question his ethics?

    Making accusations and attacks against someone's character without verifiable evidence only serves to damage your credibility Bill. The same applies to the outlandish allegations Pat Garza made to the media regarding Satanic Rituals and Ted Jaracz.. (not saying it is not true, but AGAIN, WITHOUT EVIDENCE)

    OK all you arm chair warriors call him and ask.

    Again, your self-importance and ego manifests itself. There are many other people besides you who have aided others who have been harmed by the Watchtower Society. It is my opinion that you have simply fell in love with your own press.

    Valis said:

    Come one Bill lets hear why you never/spoke up against all the other atrocious bullshit that goes on in JWland like shunning, ruining families, refusing blood transfusions, Mexico/Malawi fiasco, owning parts of a military manufacturing firm, the UN issue, no transplants, twisting the bible...while you were an elder? shall I go on? Please do tell us...I for one will be waiting for a good answer. You have reported to the media that the only reason you were disfellowshipped is your stance on the pedophilia issue...is it that you remained silent about all those other issues because they don't matter to you or you would simply look the other way and still be an active worshipper/elder of Jehovah regarless of all those glaring moral dillemas? hmmm?

    How about it Bill? Instead of using JW.com as your own public notification board and forum for attacking someone's character simply because they do not agree with you... why don't you answer some simple questions directed at you?

  • DJ

    Let me know if you disagree and why.

  • MrMoe

    If people don't SHUTUP SilentLambs will loose any credibility it has.

    Edited by - MrMoe on 9 October 2002 16:10:31

  • DJ

    I just have to learn how to edit...

    Let me know if you disagree with my above suggestion........not Reborn's (no offense)

    Oh........cool....now I can edit......yup, I'm a blonde.....lol

    Edited by - DJ on 9 October 2002 16:17:27

  • Reborn2002

    If people don't SHUTUP SilentLambs will loose any credibility it has.

    The only person responsible for damaging the credibility of Silentlambs at this point is Bill Bowen.

    • Conducting character assassinations of someone not only not present to defend themselves, but whose track record demonstrates they are indeed morally and ethically responsible.
    • Making accusations publicly against members of the WT Society without verifiable evidence. (I realize Pat Garza made the accusation, but allowing it to be done in front of the media as a part of the silentlambs march affiliates the unfounded, alleged accusation to your charitable work)

    Notice how the journalism pieces done on Panorama, Dateline, and Connie Chung ONLY covered issues which contained verifiable evidence and were taken into a court-of-law?

    And people wonder why the silentlambs march was not a major event in the press. Tossing a stuffed lamb onto a WT representative's head, making accusations of satanic rituals.. all without proof. Do you expect a credible, professional journalist to want to address such a fiasco?

    You are slowly chipping away your own credibility. I only ask sincere questions that have merit and would deserve honest, thorough answers. You would not even address if you insulted Hillary_Step the way it was alleged in the other thread. After seeing the context of your message in these posts, I do not doubt for one minute that you called him a "dickhead" and "dumbass" and demanded apologies if someone did not fully pledge you their support.

    How about it Bill? Will you answer questions being raised regarding your own character instead of attacking someone else's?

    I am sure if WT-monitors are indeed reading this board, they are gleeful at the self-destruction among the ranks.

    Edited by - Reborn2002 on 9 October 2002 16:23:8

Share this