Welcome Undercover! When I first started studying, I was taught to always ask questions about everything that is in print from the Society. I was taught to look up every scripture and read and hear anything that comes down with a questioning but open mind. It's not like that now. Maybe it never was and I was just taught be a very liberal Witness. I have to believe in a God that invites questions, and views a healthy skepticism with approval. Keep reading and thinking and you'll get where you need to be.
Help a lurking dub with doubts
by undercover 64 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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showme
Lisa Bobeesa
Can you elaborate on some of those scriptures you actually looked up or some of the other info you used that day. it is some of the stuff I am looking for. It probally will help undercover as well. -
undercover
Thanks to everyone that replied. I was amazed at the response that I got. It seems that most everybody here has gone thru the same feelings and thoughts that I am currently experiencing. It seems the evidence is stacked against the Society, but when you have been taught that way your whole life, you really doubt your own reasoning abilities when you start to see the problems. I appreciate the links to the various sites to investigate. I will also spend more time in libraries doing research.
Again thanks for the responses. I really appreciate your input. I'll be checking in and seeing what new developments there are. I may even post some, though I'm still paranoid that the elders are right around the corner spying, LOL.
Reborn, you really need to take some anger management classes or something. I'm asking questions that have come to mind in my struggle to come to grips with this. If you had gone through this you would understand so I get the feeling that you are not one that has suffered through this as so many here have. Or if you did go through this and still call peoples questions stupid, then you must be angry at everyone because you were fooled and you like to make yourself look smarter than everybody else. At least the person who wondered if I was a troll gave me the benefit of the doubt.
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minimus
welcome undercover. Don't get disturbed by some who express their anger. Perhaps they are so hurt they can only convey that. Keep positive and let's hear more about you.
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Navigator
If you can manage to fade away rather than being dA'd or dF'd, you will make it easier on your familiy to maintain contact with you. You have to decide if maintaining contact is important to you. My youngest daughter managed to fade away whereas my oldest got dF'd. My youngest's relations with her mother are much better than those of my oldest daughter.
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lisaBObeesa
TO Showme:
you said,
Lisa Bobeesa
Can you elaborate on some of those scriptures you actually looked up or some of the other info you used that day. it is some of the stuff I am looking for. It probally will help undercover as well.SURE I can elaborate! :)
The NWT is just a more clear version of the Bible, written in modern English, right? The meaning of the scriptures are JUST THE SAME as any other bible, right? They certainly havent changed the MEANING of any scriptures, right?
Some of the scriptures that the Watchtower is accused of changing the meaning of are:
Col 1:15-17
Heb 1:8
Heb 1:6
Zech 12:10
Luke 23:43
Words added to the text that CHANGE THE MEANING of the scripture are NOT OK in my book. And a comma moved can change EVERYTHING you believe about paradise. Wow.
Also check out:
Acts 20:28
Exodus 3:14, and John 8:58, which refers to Exodus 3:14. (This one took some further research for me to see what all the fuss was about)
John 1:1 (of course)
Titus 2:13
Just looking up the scriptures in other Bibles right next to the NWT really was enough for me to be shaken to the core. I was able to see that the NWT does NOT say the same thing as other Bibles, as I had believed to be true. (I was also careful to read the context of each verse)
There are more, but these scriptures were enough for me. I used all other bibles in the library to check how they translated each verse above. I used bible commentaries by scholars to see what they said about the verses. I read scholars who said the NTW was wrong and their reasons for saying so (I already knew the JW side of the argument). I looked for the TRUTH.
Check it out. See what YOU think.
Hope this helps,
-LisaBObeesa
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KAYTEE
Hello Undercover,
Good to read your posts. My wife and I feel just the way many on this board have expressed themselves. We have been witnesses for over thirty years, and it has been very hard to accept that we have been duped for all of those years. Many, many times making allowances for things which we didn't feel were christian, but what finally did it for us, was finding out about the UN involvement. We actually telephoned the UN in New York - from England, for confirmation of these facts - there is no doubt that the WTBS has been involved in things that it shouldn't be involved with.
We have not been disfellowshipped or disassociated, although we have not attended meetings for quite a few months, the shepherds have not done their job and enquired about us, so we are deciding whether to confront them with all of the information that we have got together. UN, Paedophiles, False Prophecies, Rand Cam (War Involvement) etc.
It must be hard to be alone and having to keep these thoughts to yourself, at least we have each other to discuss points with. We found that reading Ray Franz books and Johanson's Gentile Times to be very enlightening.
Their are many sincere people on this board, and we feel that you will get lots of help
We look forward to reading your next post
kind regards
Mr & Mrs Kaytee
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Darkhorse
Hello Undercover.
I am one of the worldly people who post from time to time on this board. I found my way to this site to learn about JW's because I had befriended one (I knew nothing about JW beliefs and customs). I have learned much from this site, I still am shocked from time to time when I read about how people are treated if they choose not to be a JW any longer. My friend has not attended meetings for quite a while; eventhough I do not know the extent of my friend's involvement with the JW, I can tell she has become inactive. We have not yet discussed religion, but I know in the future we will. I really care about my friend and will help her in any way I can.
From what I have learned from this site and others, you journey is not an easy one. Many who are no longer JW's are very bitter, and I can understand why. I can understand why people would rather "fade away slowly" if possible in order to minimize the "damage" that will occur if they da or become df'd.
Read and sort through the information, take you time. Only you know what is right for you.
I wish you the best of luck which ever way you turn.
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JT
hello undercover!
I try to weed through the most negative to look for facts and evidence, not opinion and mudslinging.
I can tell you are going to be fine!
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I COULD not agree more- he is taking all the right steps and going about it the right way
as i have often stated the NET "THANG" will be the key to so many folks learning HOW TO LEAVE WT IN TACT AS IT WERE.
HERE IS LINK WHERE WE DISCUSSED THIS VERY ISSUE
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=5574&site=3
One of the most painful things I continue to see here on this forum as well as all the others is that many who want to leave wt simply don't know how to leave and remain "Intact" as it were.
I recall talking with jw who "Formally Disassociated themselves back in the 70s and it was not till the 90s and the net did they finally feel free
or many who jump UP and write a letter off to Mo Larry and Curly (CONGREGATION SERVICE COMMITTEE)
While I feel there is absolutely nothing wrong with writing a letter for many it is a matter of
1. Poor timing and
2. not being prepared for what will followWhen I read of folks who wrote letters feeling bad or feeling that must meet with the elders to me that means they were not ready AT THAT TIME.
The net is really the answer for all lurkers and those who are thinking about leaving why not Learn how to leave WT at least somewhat Intact
Before writing a letter be sure to get the Pros and Cons of writing a letter- for me personally I wouldnt waste the paper or stamp- but I fully understand for those who do there is no right or wrong should I send one or not
But more of a
1. When should I do this and
2. How-I highly recommend throwing it out here in the forum for suggestions- the reason why is simple
The avg. jw has so little understanding of the WT Corporate Procedures when it comes to how they deal with folks
Being Former Society Man the rules and policies swallow up the avg. person
I recall seeing persons who are leaving spend weeks Xeroxing 40=50 pages of copies of wt history to Let the bro. know why
They dont give a RATS A$$ and once a person comes to understand that then they know how to proceed
Much like explaining Gravity to a 6 month old baby it means absolutely nothing-
Also understanding that the avg. Joe blow elder is as much a victim as we were
What I have seen here on the net is how some of the most condemning folks ( she got low hours cant be too spiritual)
( she can pioneer her hubby make s enough money) etc myself INCLUDED once we learn the truth about the truth
we feel so bad about how we treated others when we were in the Org-
I look back at some of the judicial cases that we handled and being a Society Man I went by the BOOK
VERY LITTLE feeling for the Individual person GOT TO KEEP THE ORG CLEAN-
SO FOR me know I only hope that all the folks I dealt with in an unloving way can forgive me for it was done out of ignorance and being blinded.
So for any who want to get out--------- please and I beg of you feel free to ask here on the forum what things you need to consider so when you decided to make your move you can LEAVE INTACT
JAMES
"I'd rather have questions I can't answer than questions I can't ask (or answers I can't question)."
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detective
In the terminology of the DUBS, they are worldy and have no understanding of the real meaning of this site.
Breeze, the site indicates that all those who are interested can join in. Nowhere does it indicate that you must have been a witness to be here. I haven't read a "worldly" post yet that indicated that the poster knew exactly what it was like to walk in JW shoes. Some "worldly" types like Hawkaw for example, have been instrumental in gathering information in the UN debacle. Besides, if a "worldly" person is here, you may want to find out why that is rather than down them for their presence. In my case, I probably wouldn't have ended up here if JWism hadn't entered my life by association. I've always been interested in religions and issues of faith, but I hadn't really given JWs much thought over the years. I'm glad I found this place. It's given me alot of answers and much insight.