by You Know 176 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Further.
Why WOULD I throw water on them? After all, their God is controlling their lives, they are under his protection and any trial upon them has been allowed by him and is his will for them. It is obviously a test he has allowed/ordained upon them.
Thus, If I threw water on the burning Dub, Id be thwarting Gods plan . Something I would never want to do.
Edited by - refiners fire on 4 August 2002 9:8:1
I wouldnt beat, kick and kill dubs. They dont interest me enough to kill them. By the same token if one was laid on fire in the gutter I wouldnt throw water on them. They dont interest me enough to carry a bucket of water 10 yards either.
Refiners' comments are as revealing as they are chilling. Interestingly, the stone-hearted killer Cain callously asked Jehovah if he was his brother's keeper. Meaning, he questioned whether he was obligated to look after his brother. Basically you agree with Cain. While you claim you wouldn't go so far as to personally murder one of Jehovah's Witnesses, not becuase you are not so inclined, but rather because you are simply apathetic and don't consider them worth the effort to dispatch, yet your murderous Cain-like attitude is revealed in your callous comments about not being willing to walk 30 feet to save a life. As far as personally killing Jehovah's Witnesses, Jesus didn't indicate that that was necessarily going to happen. He merely said that family members would deliver up their loved ones to have them put to death. That means that individulas like yourself will simply betray their former associates and loved ones and will assume that they are going to get what they deservve for being Jehovah's Witnesses. Refiner's comments help me to more fully appreciate why the scriptures refer to apostates as being mere senseless ones. / You Know
Until recently it was difficult to imagine how such a scenario might play itself out in fulfillment of Christ's prophecy.
Well You Know, if I didn't know you better, I'd think you were a messenger of hate. ( I'll overlook you're probably trying to get the 2,000 up, OK?)
I'm surprised by your comment that "it's difficult to imagine" as it's been discussed in the pages of The Watchtower. The text you quote is found in Mark's gospel at Mark 13:12 and has been "identified" by the F&DS as finding its "fulfillment" upon those misguided souls who decide to cave in to unnatural desires and parent children in the "last days". To refresh your memory here's the relevant quote:
In his prophecy on the conclusion of the present system of things, Jesus foretold that Christian truth would divide families. He stated: "Furthermore, brother will deliver brother over to death, and a father a child, and children will rise up against parents and have them put to death." (Mark 13:12) Obviously, rearing children in the time of the end would not always be a pure joy. It could bring heartbreak, disappointment, and even danger, as Jesus words quoted above show. (March 1, 1988 page 27)
So the WTS don't miss an opportunity to push their own short-sighted views. It's true that the WTS have also applied the text to opposers, but note how it's taught:
As Jesus foretold, unbelieving family members have risen up as persecutors. Betrayal of the Witnesses by their own rebellious children has taken place occasionally, as happened in a refugee camp in Africa. Also, in comparatively peaceful lands, Jehovahs Witnesses have at times had to contend with bitter opposition from marriage mates or other family members. As they witness tactfully and try lovingly to help such opposers, all such Witnesses are sustained by the assurance that "he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved."Mark 13:13 (October 15, 1979 page 14)
So again it's "their" fault, the others, that's how it always is with the WTS. But, of course, it overlooks the very real situation of persecution by Witness family members toward their non-JW family members. Care to deny that, You Know? Just try. I've got plenty of experience to prove any denial, the lie that it is. The WTS do break up families. They persecute non-dub family members. Care to deny it?
Cheers, Ozzie
Edited by - ozziepost on 4 August 2002 9:47:22
You Know:
Jesus said: "Furthermore, brother will deliver brother over to death, and a father a child, and children will rise up against their parents and have them put to death."
So couldn't this just mean a return to the Mosaic Law? Was this exactly what the Isrealites were told to do? Family members were the first ones (after any non-family member accuser) to participate in teh stoning of a wrongdoer. The Society itself as You Know has compared the act of disfellowshipping to this ancient tradition.
If anything the Society has fulfilled this Scripture in a larger way than any apostate group or individual. Families ahve been torn apart as a result of brother turning on brother, children turning their back on their parents treating them as tho they were dead, and parents have done likewise to their children. As far as the parent/children part lest we not forget the blood policy whereby parents have put their children to death out of a warped sense of loyalty to a man-made rule.
Your application takes a lot more explaining than mine.
Kismet
PS - You Know the really sad part? These evil vile apostates are probably the closest thing to friends you've got.
Your ignorance is certainly a marvel to me. Don't you have even the slightest clue about how God's kingdom relates to the end of this system? / You Know
Huh ? No ! It's probably because I worry about different things than you do. But you didn't answer my question : You tell us we're all doomed, always hinting that we could change that if we just would do... ? WHAT ? Or there's nothing that can be done anyway, the Tribulation is coming, Armageddon is just around the corner, we just have to wait, and we'll see... So if nothing can be done to change the course of events, why worry about it ?
YK, have a wonderful Sunday.
OZ says:
I'm surprised by your comment that "it's difficult to imagine" as it's been discussed in the pages of The Watchtower.
LOL. That's hilarious. It's always amusing to me when apostate Dubs resort to quoting the Watchtower, as if that had any bearing upon how the prophecies may yet unfold. / You Know
Kismet.
So couldn't this just mean a return to the Mosaic Law?
No. That's ridiculous. Besides, Jesus didn't say that his followers would be put to death for wrongdoing.
If anything the Society has fulfilled this Scripture in a larger way than any apostate group or individual. Families ahve been torn apart as a result of brother turning on brother, children turning their back on their parents treating them as tho they were dead, and parents have done likewise to their children.
And no doubt when things heat up resentful family members are the very ones who will deliver up their former loved ones, as Jesus said would occur. Jehovah of course foretold in Eden that the universe would ultimately be divided into two antagonistic camps, and that as Jesus showed, eventually those two diameterically opposed groups would square off in outright warfare.
As far as the parent/children part lest we not forget the blood policy whereby parents have put their children to death out of a warped sense of loyalty to a man-made rule.
I think that goes to show just how warped and deluded apostate Dubs have become.
You Know the really sad part? These evil vile apostates are probably the closest thing to friends you've got.
Clearly you are out of your mind. / You Know
You Know,
We were betrayed with false promises, and willingly looked like asses for years pushing this new world order. I gave up all childhood joys for it. My wife has suffered for it (her parents were JWs).
My wife and I were "examples in the congregation". We are good people, and have been used badly.
The general thoughts of Witnesses is not to "abandon Jehovah". But, where does the actions of men and jehovah begin? According to Watchtower, sometimes these lines are purposely blurred so as to strengthen us.
A wicked elder is never removed? God or men? A young man kills himself after being DF'd for smoking. His emotional pain at being abandoned for a small sin is so great he takes his life. Smoking could be remedied with love and attention, but the WT chooses expulsion, because it's less work. God or men?
You squarely blame the Watchtower for many things, that we have seen. I understand where you are coming from there. But your theology is still Watchtower, except for a few small things you yourself have come to believe. Why not just separate yourself from the Watchtower? You call yourself a Jehovahs Witness, but you could be DF'd for many of your views. You could be shunned as many of us have, and some of us have been df'd for similar reasons...sticking up for what is right.
Your Sunday morning sermon is interesting, but I don't agree. God's fulfillment could only be in love. What miracle could come from being one of the 2 million out of 6 billion that survive a horrible catyclysm? The emotional ramifications are as horrific as your predictions. If I lived in that world, I would be sick to my stomach every day, as to God's continuing judgement. I would weep for the people who were dead. I would wail at all of the destruction and death. What emotional toll is for those 'survivors'?
That's why I can't believe that judgement is imminent. The judgement (eternal death) doesn't fit the purpose (vindicating Jehovah's name). Jehovah could vindicate his name in a sign that DIDN'T kill 6 billion people, and you'd better believe people would be good boys and girls after that. He could destroy Satan and make a paradise WITHOUT killing everyone, and changing their cruel hearts with wonderful fancy. But, why the bloody sword, why always the bloody sword?
Sorry, YK. It just will never make sense to me.
ash
You Know,
I've re-formatted my post - I seem to be having problems.
Anyway, to the point at hand, you haven't answered the question. With regard to your response, of course I will refer to The Watchtower. Isn't that why you're here?
Now, dare you deny what I stated?
Ozzie
Maybe it was a bad idea to bring to light the oxymoron "Apostate Dub". YouKnow has evidently seized on this extremely annoying expression and is now wielding it the same way a pornstar wields a strapon. You go, boy! Shag 'em baby, yeah!
