Does Ray Franz owe us an apology?

by sleepy 48 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  NewWay

  It is obvious from the question asked and from what I've read in other posts that there are some who are not content with what Ray has done so far. I may have been in two minds about this had Ray written only "Crisis of Conscience". Not only did it seem that Ray felt responsibility for the knowledge he had about the inner workings of the society, but he also, via his book "In Search Of Christian Freedom" appeared to want to help those who still had a Christian spiritual need. It is one thing to simply expose error and leave people fuming, but to actually do something to help people move on with their lives is, to my mind, a noble thing to do. As has been pointed out, he did not have to write any books. But, because he has a conscience and a sense of responsibility he did what he could according to his abilities.
  
  Let's not forget his age, nor what it takes to compose books and get them published. I'm persuaded by what I've read on different web sites and forums that he spends much time in conversing with individuals who have responded in a positive way to what he has written. It seems appropriate here to cite the example of the Apostle Paul, whose way of life once resulted in great persecution (and death in the case of Stephen) for the early Christians. How did God deal with him? Paul, after having his eyes opened to the truth, used his life henceforth according to God's will for him. Let's just be thankful for what he has done in that without his publishing efforts it would have been much harder for some of us to have escaped from the strangle-hold of servitude that the WTS had on us.
  
  Lastly, I agree with Jan, and others here who made it clear that actions speak louder than words. I know that if Ray had simply made a public announcement to say, "Sorry", it would be a matter of personal opinion as to whether or not he really meant it. However, his publishing efforts, and continued interest in helping people spiritually represent, to me anyway, good evidence of repentance.
  
  However, sleepy, I personally was not offended by your asking the question, as I am interested in knowing what more he could have done - or even should be doing, according to the opinion of some people.

  Edited by - NewWay on 1 August 2002 15:18:57
• 

  Sentinel

  All of us are imperfect, and have more recently learned, since escaping the borg, that "being human", and doing "human things" is natural for all of us. We can now relax and live this wonderful life, without all the baggage of being tied to the wrong religion. We can strive to remove the guilt and fears that were so much a part of daily life.

  In all these things, Ray Franz is no different from the rest of us. He was an innocent victim too. I believe we each need to accept responsibility for our own lives. Most of us here have, or are in the process of doing just that.

  IMHO, Ray Franz was fortunate to have gotten out with his own sanity in tact. To say that he owes anyone else anything regarding the JW hypocrisy, simply because he was a member of the governing body, seems inappropriate.

  He didn't have to write those books, but he did. He could have changed his name and disappeared, but he chose not too.

  Love and Light,

  Karen/Sentinel

  Edited by - Sentinel on 1 August 2002 15:33:49
• 

  jst2laws

  outoftheorg

  We have similar feelings and regrets. Like veterans of a bad war, we all wish we would have never been involved. Good to express our feeling about it.

  Outlaw I too do not fault him for being appointed to the GB but admire what he has done since.

  apology?..For what?..He followed the instructions of WBTS same as the rest of us..When he could no longer stand what was going on he left,just like the rest of us.With one exception,he let us know what was going on at the top

  Zenpuck Good

  Ray has more than made up for his time as a GB member by writing Crisis of Conscience. That book has changed many more lives for the better...

  Java, example of why I wish you would post more:

  he didn't hide behind the comfortable walls of the Governing Body and live out his life as a junior Pope. He is the only member of the Governing Body to exit, and expose the problems within

  Gopher, Well said:

  Ignorance can be forgiven, and Ray has effectively asked that his blind followership of the Watchtower be forgiven based on what he found out. No further flagellation of this fine man was ever needed. He did his own "mea culpa".

  sleepy

  You seem to be getting a little spanking for bring this up. I appreciate your asking the question because it has recieced good responses. I know and love Ray F. If nothing else you got many others to speak up about how they feel too. I just hope this does not deteriate into another 'culpability' war.

  Jst2laws
• 

  patio34

  Dear Sleepy,

  I think you've asked a valid question and it made me think. There's a lot of blame heaped on the present Governing Body and it seems to me that when Ray Franz was a member, he was in the same situation.

  I've read and enjoyed both of his books. He is very convincing in his argumentation.

  But, while his intentions may have been altruistic, it seems that he was probably compensated for his books and it was probably cathartic for him to write them.

  So, does he owe folks an apology? Is he partially responsible for the deaths of ones who refused blood? Is he also partially responsible for all the prison time neutral young men had to serve? And all of the rest of the suffering caused by the WTS policies?

  I don't know the answers and don't feel inclined to demand an apology from him. However, I have apologized to my kids for raising them in JWs, thus contributing to some of the sorrows of their lives. I felt it was appropriate to apologize for following WTS. The same kind of reasoning could be applied to Mr. Franz, who was in one of the most powerful positions in the WTS. Are the books enough? As I mentioned before, he was most probably compensated well for writing them.

  SF made some excellent points in her post, that I agree with.

  Thanks for this thoughtful subject.

  Pat
• 

  jst2laws

  Hello SF,

  I'm am glad you expressed your feelings. I may not agree with you but you stated your stand without being harsh or judgemental of others. I hope any who respond to you will do the same.

  I can tell you have suffered a lot. As you say these are "My thoughts, feelings here are....MINE" and you arrived at those feelings legitimately. No one should criticize anothers feelings

  As to your thought:

  "That was then, this is NOW. What MORE could he do, before his death, to expose much more than he has already revealed? Anything? How could we truly know for sure?

  Let me share a little infomation that might help other understand how I feel.

  Ray Franz is 80 years old with no hope of retiring. This he suffers because of his WT experience.

  He has no children to take care of his wife or himself in his old age because he too was victimized by WT policy regarding having children.

  He dares not take a vacation because he has too much work to do. He IS Commentary Press. He does the typing and editing of new editions and new translations, prepares them for publication, orders new editions, recently unloaded five palettes of boxes of books into his garage where he takes orders and packs boxes for shipping. He personally carries a pickup truck load a week of boxed up books to the post office for mailing. BTW, the truck is an old clunker given to him by a sympathetic friend.

  He does this despite having had a stroke last year and nearly no blood flow to one side of his brain.

  His wallpaper is pealing, the cloths dryer no longer works, but he spends much of his day answering countless emails he recieves each day from broken people he has never met. He often responds with many pages of heart felt sympathy and counsel.

  Your question as to 'could he do more is worthy of asking'. If only you knew the man and the depth of his humility and love for others you would have your answer.

  Jst2laws
• 

  sleepy

  Just2laws

  Thanks for your insightful reply.Franz remains an enigma to must of us, as we have never met him or do not know him.

  If he spends this much time on his work then its obvious he does feel a responsability for what has happened.

  The question was raised as a precedent, do those in high postions bare more responsability than others?And are they prepered to put more effort into helping others.

  I havent yet done enought, and I hope that I will .When I compare the time put into meetings , service etc to what I do now to help people out its nowhere near.
• 

  sf

  Yes, thank you for the insight. While this 'light' may change a few things in my thoughts and feelings re: the man, there are other deeper issues...for ME...re: ALL GB members; past or present.

  I made sure I got out before becoming 18(adult). If I had stayed after that...I could only blame me. But I was dfed as A CHILD. Never went back, never will. If I messedd up someoes life as a direct result of my 'preaching work' and self-righteous attitude, a a baptized member of that 'cult'...

  I DECLARE HERE AND NOW MY APOLOGIES WITH DEEP REGRETS FOR MY PART.

  sKally
• 

  dstepper

  I have been a lurker here for a long time but have never posted anything but when I saw this topic I felt the need to respond. Ray does not owe me any apology but I do owe Ray a big Thank You . I was a wittness for 13 years when I walked out of the Kingdom Hall for the last time about 8 years ago. For 5 years after that I felt like a person under a death sentence because I still believed that the witnesses had the truth but I knew that I could not live the witness life style any longer but when I read Ray's two books the Watchtower spell was broken and I realized that I had been deceived. IMHO anything that Ray did as a member of the GB he has more than made up for by exposing the Watchtower Socitey for what it really is.

  Greg
• 

  Cassiline

  Hey sKally,

  Proir to sleepy editing his post a few lines were worded differently above this question below, I find it to be a little more "reader friendly" and it does not convay the same message/questions as the origional. Perhaps you read it before he edited it twice perhaps not.

  Have you forgiven him?~~ sleepy

  If you notice in my first post this was the question I disagreed with. For I saw it as a demand of sorts just as a priest may ask you, "Have you forgiven your brother" If I state "no" it means, I still have to do so. If I state yes this means I felt a reason to do so. Like the old question that can't be answered, "Sir have you stopped beating your wife?"

  Then I go on to question sleepy if he indeed felt the need to apologize to any and all, past, present and future s/he may have sold the truth to. Since that is what he asks at the end of everyone here. My point, Ray Franz IMO has been proactive in trying to undo damage that has been a result of his association with the WTBTS.

  Just about everyone here has tried to "sell the truth." I don't believe any of us who has been out in service, placing magazines, writing letters etc. actually knows how many lives we may have touched. One may say "I never brought anyone into the truth" can everyone say that with certainty? What about the one Watchtower left in the Doctors office someone picked up? Perhaps because of that one "placement" one may have ended up in the "truth"?

  This is why I asked, "why single out one person such as Ray Franz" why not a "general" question? For none of us know what our impact is/was in reality if we really stop to think about it. We are well aware of Ray Franz because he is former member of the GB.

  Without the original post and the original reply to myself by sleepy, my replies are going to look skewed. And they do.

  Cassiline, I sincerely hope you see this as nothing personal towards you and YOUR feelings and thoughts re: Ray. It has everything to do with ME, and nothing to do with YOU. Your opinions (feelings, thoughts) are VALID too, 100percet. As are we all. Sincerely, sKally

  I don't take it as personal. Thanks for your sincere opinion.
• 

  NewWay

  jst2laws: Thanks for sharing that information about Ray with us.
  
  dstepper: Welcome to the forum!
  
  Kind regards.