Child Molestation

by Friend 62 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Friend
    Friend

    larc

    I think you came close to answering my question. However, there has to be more to your decision than you have explained so far. Again, why did you pick this particular group of "good people". Why not the Amish, per my recent post about them, or any other well meaning group?

    First of all, I have not chosen to help Jehovah’s Witnesses to the exclusion of any other group of people, not that you have inferred otherwise. As able I try to help all people that I can.

    In the beginning my association with JWs was by means of my parents. As I grew up a personal conscious choice was made to continue that association for the reason I already gave, namely that I think they are fine and good people who are just doing their very best to live moral lives, and I like that. I also enjoy the great diversity of people making up Jehovah’s Witnesses. Unlike many critics of Jehovah’s Witnesses, when I was growing up and in my later years I never found myself repressed from speaking my views to the Society about where change was or is needed. Also, I have never felt as though I could not speak with my closest friends among Jehovah’s Witnesses about issues that disturb me. I think a feeling of repression is one of the major things that initiate negative feelings of people who begin to realize that something is not just right. When they feel unable to voice themselves and be heard then, naturally, they feel repressed and then the whole thing goes to “hell” as far as they are concerned. I can understand that frustration but I have not experienced it as so many others have. Others with experience more similar to my own do not have the same sorts of wounds as those with dissimilar experiences.

    Friend

  • Friend
    Friend

    Tina

    It's not a melting pot, it's conformity....no organization can be reformed without the right to crtically debate issues, a sort of checks and balances where all have input,,, this just isn't so among them,,,,,,, even if they corrected their reporting policy, there is still too much wrong,,, it's still totalitarian.

    The missing information in your assertion above is that so much of Society policy stems from the feelings and concerns of Jehovah’s Witnesses. For instance, though the Society has had ulterior motives for not requiring that elders report accusations of child molestation, by and large the JW community has asked that it be that way as much as possible. That is, JWs have asked that the prerogative of reporting remain with the victim. That request comes from parents who would prefer that their child not have to go through scrutiny of the secular system. Naturally, other parents feel differently. And believe you me, for those parents feeling that way (wanting to report) there is practically no holding them back for any reason. For them, their child comes first and they will do whatever they feel is in that interest no matter any perceived consequences. Therefore, though the Society has the ulterior motives I speak of, their policies by and large also accommodate the preference of the community of Jehovah’s Witnesses. The real fault is, as I suggest, that the Society does not train elders to encourage reporting and be more supportive of that.

    The control on who one should marry, mode of attire, what music and art one can enjoy, in short ones lifestyle is legislated,, there is little free choice......women are still second class in that system.

    All of that is a matter of opinion. I am glad you have your own. I would not suggest you have it any other way.

    The abusive practice of disfellowshipping keeps too many in a fear state........the wts while crying for religious freedom. violates the civil and human rights of its very own members.

    I believe there are good ethical and scriptural arguments for shunning. I take issue with the Society on aspects of shunning as it is currently instituted among Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    Name one ,just one charitable program that assists all regardless of creed......where are the food pantries, crisis centers, homeless shelters etc etc for their own members?

    There is a common relief fund that every branch of the Society ahs access to in the event of disasters needing relief on a large scale. Locally congregations are encouraged to take care of their own as best they can. Congregations do that in different ways. Because congregations do not have “food banks” does not mean they do not provide food for needy members. As for charities in general, the Society encourages that Jehovah’s Witnesses support them but it does not indicate which ones are suitable for that support. It leaves that choice to the individual JW.

    Friend

  • Tina
    Tina

    Sorry but they are a 'charitable organization' on paper (for tax purposes) they should have some organized charities.....what an individual does is not the point...and they fail miserably in assisting widows and orphans in their tribulation...I don't know what kh you've attended but in all my life as a JW,I haven't seen what you speak of.
    Sure the odd meal here and there,the old clothes no longer wanted,given away now and then......or instructions how to fill out govt forms and applications for aid......
    I've seen far too many jw's on adc and welfare(mostly pioneers)
    You can tell me the 'aid' is there all day,I will continue to disagree......christian charity should encompass anyone in need,not just another jw.........but then charity begins at 'home' doesn't it.
    So can you tell me the name of a wts charity that is verifiable? On paper? Tina

  • Focus
    Focus

    I've watched this thread with some mirth - at the sheer, brazen impudenceof the spiritually-repugnant "F iend Class"! How well he plays it! He is as almost as skilled as his disgusting religious Mother!

    Let's take F iend at face value. I'll expound his views:

    * Friend believes that the Society is often wicked, corrupt, selfish and deceitful, no more God's organization than any of a myriad others, which is contrary to the Watchtower's most central claim.
    * Friend certainly appears to disbelieve or mistrust a great deal of what the Watchtower says.
    * Friend implies he is unconcerned with any sanctions against him that might apply were he to cease to be a JW.
    * Friend disregards or fails to logically follow on to the fact that the Society is autocratic, and its bosses do not reform themselves unless compelled to so do by external events.
    * However, and notwithstanding all this, Friend chooses NOT to leave it, but instead continues serving the Watchtower, being counted among its numbers and performing its works, thereby serving to increase the number of people trapped inside it and enlarging the misery pool.

    So, doesn't your head spin? The man "Friend" is therefore clearly either STARK, RAVING MAD, or a LIAR. Or both.

    Remember, the simplest explanations are often the right ones - and he can't quite explain in a way that makes one say "Aha! I understand why a person of Friend's insight still stays within when not compelled to by shunning considerations".. Think why he can't make the explanation - the simplest answer is that it is impossible for him to do so. Which suggests...

    It is LIARS like the Watchtower who need reams and reams of proof to justify themselves, to show that words actually mean something different from what they do to everyone else, how clever they are and how foolish is the knowledge of the world, etc. Now, I see F iend using exactly these techniques... Wonder why? LOL!

    And his motives have already been discussed in the thread "PEDOPHILES are to WTS as flies are to honey?" http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=3035&site=3
    Of course I understand his discomfort in dealing with them there, where one can more readily compare his apologia with his offensive ejaculations of spiritual-pornography, in the hyperbole of the organization whose work he performs. AlanF and I refuted him in that thread, in which he stopped responding claiming to have reached an impasse with AlanF. Be prepared to spend some time reading that thread, and see how he has been systematically dismembered there. Which is why he flees to more fruitful recruiting grounds here.

    Let me use an analogy. In the Second World War, European theater, the Allies did not fight just the Nazis. They fought the whole German Empire. One was at war with the whole lot of them, no matter how "nice" individual soldiers might be - one had to be. Here, the war is with the whole Watchtower Organization and body of Jehovah's Witnesses - for they are the ones going door-to-door, spreading in their army-like way this foul disease that masquerades as a religion.

    Personally, I think he really is the most despicable person, the view enunciated by several of the long-timers on h2O, and by silentlambs too. Perhaps F iend's mission is to show by example that many people are unwisely trusting and can be misled and confused - and so he tries to deceive, whilst so doing expounding his barrack-room law and schoolboy moral code! While I cannot say for certain what is his agenda - mental instability can account for much - I know that hunting out the gullible is something the Watchtower does too. Well, F iend flies like a duck, quacks like a duck, behaves like a duck - and claims to be a nominal duck. He can't then complain that I treat him as one, then, bearing in mind that the open season has started? LOL!

    Friend's claims that I made a mistake are entirely predicated upon his choice (idiotic or larcenous, I cannot tell) of meaning attributed to the word "policy" as applying to the Watchtower. He deems there to be no ambiguity in the meaning of such a term as applied to a deceitful and duplicitous organization! Well, he can "deem away" till he's blue in the face. We know it does not. I deliberately chose to interpret the word "policy" differently from the way he did - as being that body of unambiguous rules from which it is wholly impossible for the Watchtower to distance itself without admitting it is doing so.

    The proven misconduct of this Spiritual-Criminal is there for all to see, and its effect is to dampen down enthusiasm AGAINST the Watchtower - "perhaps they have a point, perhaps they were right after all". So:
    From the nature of the fruit, judge the PURPOSE and AGENDA of the tree

    Just so that you do not get confused, friends, in the same way that the Watchtower tried to confuse you. I quoted Shakespeare in the other thread. Could have chosen some Greek too - the bad guys there so often come in the guise of "we are here to help you!". Perhaps he has read Classics somewhere (no, Xandit, not Classic Comics).

    [insanity mode]
    No, no, I am all wrong. F iend is only trying to HELP US!
    [/insanity mode]

    Yeah, sure. Woo-hoo, just saw a flying pig then. It was a theocratic one, to boot.

    --
    Focus
    (FOCUS Class)

    Edited by - Focus on 13 March 2001 16:18:31

  • Friend
    Friend

    Focus

    * However, and notwithstanding all this, Friend chooses NOT to leave it, but instead continues serving the Watchtower, being counted among its numbers and performing its works, thereby serving to increase the number of people trapped inside it and enlarging the misery pool.

    Considering your penchant for using common terms in an uncommon way, please explain what you mean by "serving the Watchtower" and "its works." Then we will see if your assertion above can be evidenced as meaningful or not.

    spiritually-repugnant…. Spiritual-Criminal…. etc.

    Ad hominem

    Personally, I think he really is the most despicable person, the view enunciated by several of the long-timers on h2O, and by silentlambs too.

    Ad verecundiam

    You can do better than that can’t you?

    It is really amazing that you can be so vindictive even when I have repeatedly said that your complaints are basically valid ones. What exactly do you expect? Do you expect that persons who do not agree with everything you say are all "serving the Watchtower" and performing "its works" by virtue of pointing to errors that you do make. And, for crying out loud, if you intended something other than what I was speaking of in my criticism of your loosely worded assertion on our previous thread of exchange, then why not just say so and move on? I mean, you already admitted that it is not against Watchtower policy that a JW reports to the police of being a witness to a serious crime committed by another JW. I mean, either it is against Watchtower policy or it is not against Watchtower policy. Whatever your definition of "policy," you answered that it is not, and that was my point! That is all I was correcting because, whether you like it or not, your initial assertion said otherwise. At least that is how your usage would have been commonly applied. Again, if that is not what you meant to say then just those few words were all that were needed to correct things. Why do you now insist upon vilifying me? Would you have vilified the French policemen of WWII who were active underground members because they remained at work as policemen? Would you? Would you vilify them because they chose to remain at their post and do what they could to help their fellow Frenchmen from being hurt and maybe, just maybe, help things for the better along the way? What about those German citizens who opposed Hitler but chose underground tactics to do so? Do you seriously think Allied forces were fighting them too? Is that the kind of person you are? I think you have no reason whatsoever to vilify me, at least none other than you having problems accepting constructive criticism.

    Friend

    Edited by - Friend on 13 March 2001 20:50:16

  • JT
    JT

    TR says

    The WTS is acting like any other big corporation caught with it's hand in the cookie jar. With it's spin doctors and harem of lawyers, why in the world would I think this is God's org? It's a rediculous thought.

    +++++++++++
    THERE IS NO MORE THAT NEEDS TO BE SAID

    Riddle of the day

    What is the difference between WT- Firestone- and the Tobacco companies?

    smile

    James

  • Friend
    Friend

    Tina

    Sorry but they are a 'charitable organization'…

    Do you mean a non-profit organization, or perhaps a non-profit organization that says it engages in charitable works? If not, where is the Society registered as a charitable organization?

    Friend

  • expatbrit
    expatbrit

    Friend:

    The WT is registered as a charity in Canada. It's 1996 charity return may be viewed at this address:

    http://www.redrival.com/wis/taxreturn.html

    Expatbrit.

  • JT
    JT

    Friend reply to Focus :

    Focus

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    * However, and notwithstanding all this, Friend chooses NOT to leave it, but instead continues serving the Watchtower, being counted among its numbers and performing its works, thereby serving to increase the number of people trapped inside it and enlarging the misery pool.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Considering your penchant for using common terms in an uncommon way, please explain what you mean by "serving the Watchtower" and "its works ." Then we will see if your assertion above can be evidenced as meaningful or not.

    ###########################################################

    If this poor man is sincere , then you can only feel sorry for him- awhile back over on H20 I went around the barn with Friend on how the avg jw elder would have his Elder Strips snatched from him if it became known that he disagreed with the Society and his response to me was that he had shared his views and in fact his "Privileges" were not removed but was increase/ more talks/assignments, etc

    so yes whether you want to admit it or not

    EACH ASSIGNMENT YOU get- be it --Public talk/ CA/ District Part/ Special Assembly Day part/ Instructing Elders school/ or serving on ANY COMMITTEE is just another example of you "SERVING the Society"

    and what is so funny about it is WE ALL KNOW IT!!!!!!! AND either he refuses to acknowledge it for what it is or is just plain Blind and Deaf

    choice is his

    how sad

    JT

  • JT
    JT

    this post is so sad-

    *********Tina

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sorry but they are a 'charitable organization'…
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Do you mean a non-profit organization, or perhaps a non-profit organization that says it engages in charitable works? If not, where is the Society registered as a charitable organization?

    Friend

    **********

    Once again we another example of slicing a Hair off the leg of a fly.

    it is due to this type of Mindset that many of the Movers and Shakers have at Bethel that Highlites just how out of touch they are with just plain talk among reg folks-

    his mindset is due to the yrs of training that wt gives it's upper status elders.

    here we see a simple statment transformed into LEGAL JARGON

    and if you followed the last thread that was the CONSTANT THREAD

    the Legalism/Technical manner in which everything is done

    allow me to give you an example -

    in elders school our instructor spent a ton of time on explaining to 900 elder mostly married men--the difference between the charges that would be brought up against a bro who "RUBBED A SISTER'S BREAST" AND "Momentary Touched it"

    It is due to such legal/technical jargon that one quickly sees that wt has nothing to do with /god , but is merely another Inc corporation with a very large EMPLOYEE HANDBOOD

    HOW SAD

    JAMES
    to those few who after yrs are enbecome positioned in

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