BUSh Declares Our RIGHTs come from GOD!

by plmkrzy 66 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  tdogg

  Oh NO! Our HERITAGE!

  Those sacred words "under God" are a part of a tradition that extends back near to the origions of this country! How dare they! I mean those blessed word have been uttered by children in this country everday since clear back to...to...uh... well the fifties! I shudder to think about what my great grandfather, who I never knew, that died in 1937 would think! He would be devastated to hear of this. Well I mean he would be devestated if he had lived past the time "under God" was actually IN the pledge, you bet he would. Our GREAT forefathers, and foremothers don't forget, would NEVER allow something like this to happen because they stopped that GODLESS BASTARD HITLER! And that ENGLISH HEATHEN that king ,you know the one. And the COMMIE ATHIESTS too! And we need to stand up and defend OUR GOD GIVEN RIGHT to say "under God" whenever we please. Can't you see where this is headed? If people can't say "under God" while chanting in sacred rites of obligiatory nationalistic ferver, we all will be diminished.

  This truly is ..."one nation....under God...who lives in the sky..right above the continental U.S., you know, like perpendicular to a tangent at D.C., straight out there in the sky...just bigger though maybe...I mean he's probably bigger than the US boundries but maybe out there far enough away that he lines up with America, and maybe some of the ocean, probably some of the Gulf of Mexico too...with liberty and justice for all!
• 

  Kenneson

  tdogg,

  And I intend to use the words "under God" whenever and wherever I please, pledge or no pledge! Now you can be under whatever you will. The Bible and Commandments were in usage from the inception of the schools and we allowed those to be removed. Maybe, just maybe we will stand up for once and not allow these words to be removed (even if they are as modern as 1954). And even if they are successful in banning it from the pledge, they will never ban it from my lips, although I know they would just love to ban the words in public (privately, too if we allow it) altogether slowly and subtly.

  UNDER GOD!
• 

  gsx1138

  All of these posts make me want to be an atheist. Christianity and organized religion will be the downfall of this country. You can get high and mighty all you want but the difference between a zealous christian and a militant muslim are almost non existant. Christians think they have it right and Muslims think they have it right. Both have plenty of examples in history where countries tried to rule with religion and every example shows the brutality behind their God.

  gsx1138
• 

  bluesapphire

  gsx1138, it makes me feel almost the same way.

  Take the friggin' words out of the pledge. Who cares. People want to pray, go ahead and pray. No one is stopping you. People want to say "under god" go ahead.

  But why should people who do not believe in god be forced to choose between being ridiculed by their peers or saying something they don't believe in? Those two words do not belong in the pledge or in schools at all. That's not what schools are for.

  I don't send my kids to school to learn about god. It's not the school's place to teach about god. It's the parents' responsibility. And come to think of it, I don't want my children to believe their nation is ordained by god either.
• 

  plmkrzy

  just as civil rights is used, pawnlike, today to mask other, more sinister, agenda. Politics then was the same as politics today:

  Franc.... I don't think you realize it but your response turned out to be an affirmation of what I was ATTEMPTING to say. The only difference being we are obviously not going in the same direction even though we are on the same track. so I guess that means... BOOM!

  **************************

  It does seem extremely stupid that so many united people would be in such an uproar over this. I don't see this flag thing, as a threat in it's self. Who cares if 1/2 the people in this country convert to Buddhism then during the flag salute they can stand up and put their hand over whatever and say whatever and chances are no one would notice anyway. Unless your Roseanne Barr and you grab your crotch and spit when youre done.

  I see this as a "pawn" (a possible pawn) to begin doing some MAJOR tampering and CHANGING in the constitution that will have an adverse affect on the rights that we already have.

  I din't mean to cause anyone to feel sick......Sorry.

  plum
• 

  Kenneson

  Gsx,

  How has atheistic rule been any different? Look at Russia.
• 

  Francois

  plmkrzy, I don't understand. What is it that you are attempting to say? I really would like to know.

  Also (and this comment is directed to the board in general), it is irrelevant what the Declaration of Independence says. The D of I does not form the law of this land, the U.S. Constitution does. There is always a lot of intoning about God and high ethical, moral, and political principles when revolution and grapeshot is in the air. God is always in support of the belligerents in war.

  For example, the belt buckles of German troups in WWI and WWII contained the phrase "Gott Mitt Uns," - God is with us. And of course we know the Germans did not represent anything of a high moral nature. Um, unless they had won. Then, of course, they would have been backed by God and no doubt about it. And THEY'D be writing the histories as well, not us.

  Same with the Japanese. Their high moral position was in supporting their Emporer, the Son of Heaven. He couldn't possibly be wrong. God was indeed on their side.

  And today's conflict with Extremist Islam, the leaders of which have stated that western civilization must be destroyed of course have Allah behind them, their cause is always holy. And their efforts will be rewarded by a painless death, a trip to heaven leaving immediately, and 48 virgins on arrival (why would you want even one?).

  I repeat my initial idea. I'd rather have Bush's idea anyday than Clinton's assertion that our freedoms come from the gummint. That is a very, very dangerous assertion. If the gummint gave us our rights, then the gummint can take them away. You'd expect better ideation from the president of the United States.

  And as for the assertion that Clintion was militarist trash: Clinton famously said that he "loathed" the military. The feeling was mutual. It will continue to be some time before the country and especially the military recover from the eight years that Ross Perot made us suffer that insufferable bastard Clinton, and now his Marxist wife - lusting after the presidency.

  Francois
• 

  IslandWoman

  Francois,

  Also (and this comment is directed to the board in general), it is irrelevant what the Declaration of Independence says. The D of I does not form the law of this land, the U.S. Constitution does.

  An argument could be made that since the Declaration of Independence is a Government document and does mention God, why would it be wrong for a government sanctioned pledge to mention God?

  The U.S. government was discouraging the support of any one religion by the government itself not the recognition of God.

  IW
• 

  Xander

  The United States was not founded by atheists. Many of the founding fathers found fault with organized religion and its passion for control

  Atheists? No, not ALL of them. Several, at least, and those that were not were deists - certainly no christians were among the 'founding fathers' or any of the nations early luminaries.

  From another thread:

  . Many protesters decry these decisions on the grounds that they conflict with the wishes and intents of the "founding fathers."

  Such a view of American history is completely contrary to known facts. The primary leaders of the so-called founding fathers of our nation were not Bible-believing Christians; they were deists.

  ....

  Fundamentalist Christians are currently working overtime to convince the American public that the founding fathers intended to establish this country on "biblical principles," but history simply does not support their view. The men mentioned above and others who were instrumental in the founding of our nation were in no sense Bible-believing Christians. Thomas Jefferson, in fact, was fiercely anti-cleric

  ....

  Jefferson was just as suspicious of the traditional belief that the Bible is "the inspired word of God." He rewrote the story of Jesus as told in the New Testament and compiled his own gospel version known as The Jefferson Bible, which eliminated all miracles attributed to Jesus and ended with his burial. The Jeffersonian gospel account contained no resurrection, a twist to the life of Jesus that was considered scandalous to Christians but perfectly sensible to Jefferson's Deistic mind.

  ....

  Jefferson didn't just reject the Christian belief that the Bible was "the inspired word of God"; he rejected the Christian system too. In Notes on the State of Virginia, he said of this religion, "There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites" (quoted by newspaper columnist William Edelen, "Politics and Religious Illiteracy," Truth Seeker, Vol. 121, No. 3, p. 33).

  Lots more here:

  http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/myth.html

  And some good quotes here:

  http://paganinfo.50g.com./quotes.htm

  "My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures, have become clearer and stronger with advancing years and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them."
  --Abraham Lincoln, to Judge J.S. Wakefield, after Willie Lincoln's death

  "The Christian system of religion is an outrage on common sense."
  -- Thomas Paine

  "The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."
  -- Treaty of Tripoli (1797) signed by John Adams (the original language is by Joel Barlow, U.S. Consul.)

  "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
  -- Benjamin Franklin: Poor Richard's Almanack, 1758
• 

  IslandWoman

  Xander,

  I agree with the gist of your post. Jefferson was not a Christian in the sense of believing Jesus was divine and performed miracles. He respected many of the teachings of Jesus but he did not think of him as anything more than a fine person.

  As you noted many of the "founding fathers" had had their fill of organized religion and participated for the benefit of their children's moral education or for the social convenience, but saw the inherent dangers and resulting evils of men who claimed to speak for God.

  I enjoyed your post, thanks.

  IW