Identity of 'Spiritual Israel'

by Jr 117 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Emiliano
    Emiliano

    Ianao,

    Why should you care about what people think?
    One should care about how God sees us. If one has faith in Jesus Christ we become a new creation. We won't be perfect. Not until God is finished working in us. When we are resurrected. We are all a work in progress some of us progress slow others not so slow. The struggle is between the innerman and the flesh. Romans 7:21-25Paul describes his struggle with this same issue. "I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good. For I joyfully concur with the laaw of God in the inner man, but I see in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then , on the one hand I myself wiht my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin." The solution and relief comes in Chapter 8:1 There is therefore NO CONDEMNATION who are in Christ Jesus,..... "if you get a chance read the rest of the chapter. I dont really know exactly where you're coming from with your question. Maybe I'm missing a 3rd post. Why would you be considered a worker of iniquity by anyone ? I dont have the full story. I hate the sin but I dont look down on anyone or hate any "sinner" . Jesus died for sinners that we may be saved.

    Christians shouldnt feel like they are better than anyone else!
    And if someone here is makeing you feel that by what they've said I wouldn't let it bother me. We are all a work in progress.

    Emiliano

  • oanai
    oanai

    Thanks for the input Emiliano. (Thanks for the comprehensive answer also.)

    quote:
    if someone here is makeing you feel that by what they've said I wouldn't let it bother me...

    Nah, nobody's making me feel that way. I was just asking, as always.

  • Emiliano
    Emiliano

    agent2863

    Good point! I thought no one else was having problems with these guy's wierd logic.

    Emiliano

  • James
    James

    To Jr

    By means of His prophet Hosea, Jehovah foretold that He would reject the nation of natural Israel in favor of a ‘spiritual nation’, which includes Gentiles:
    „And I shall certainly sow her like seed for me in the earth, and I will show mercy to her who was not shown mercy, and I will say to those not my people::’You are my people’ and they for their part, will say:’You are my God." Hosea 2:23

    And through Jesajah (10:21) was foretold about the natural Israelites: „ A mere remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the Mighty God."

    I do agree that Jehovah would fulfill His purpose, even though the natural Israel became unfaithful. And His way was, that he would open to the gentiles the opportunity to become His people, the ‘spiritual Israel’. This was foretold from old, through His prophets.

    It all began, when the apostle Peter was lead to Cornelius, the first gentile, who got the opportunity to join the ‘remnant’ of the Jews, who accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior. Later on, through the apostle Paul, the Holy Spirit brought thousands of Gentiles to the christian congregation, so that Paul could write to the galatians:"And all those who will walk orderly by this rule of conduct, upon them be peace and mercy, even upon the Israel of God".(Gal. 6:16)

    If we read this Letter to the Galatians, we will see that the right to belong to this ‘spiritual Israel', was not due to a fleshly right, being a natural Jew, because Paul says:"Moreover, if YOU BELONG TO CHRIST, you are REALLY Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise." Gal. 3:29

    In the congregation of the galatians, as well in Rome, there were christian Jews, who pretended that the gentiles joining the christian congregation should observe the mosaic Law and let them be circumcised. Paul enphasized the point when he wrote to the Romans, chap. 2:28, 29:" For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside (through circumcision), nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code. The praise of that one comes, not from men, but from God.".

    Reading the whole letter to the Romans, we can see that the promises from old, were to be applied to new people, the ‘spiritual Israel’ of God, through the New Mediator, Jesus Christ, and not through the observing of the mosaic Law, but rather through faith in Jesus Christ. (Rom. 9:6-29)

    Since then Jehovah has’nt changed His purpose. We are also living in a time, when the opportunity to belong BY SPIRIT to this ‘Israel of God’ is still given to all mankind, including natural Jews. That’s why I believe, Jehovah is fulfilling those prophecies from old in the Christian Congregation. Not due to presumption, or bearing ‘The Name’ as a 'label', or in an organization of men, but BY HIS SPIRIT, this ‘Spiritual Israel’ is all over the world, and we are unified not by the power of men, but by the power of the Holy Spirit.

    John Darby’s Commentary says about Galatians 6:16:" To the believer the world has its true character; for in fact, in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value (all that has passed away with dead Christ), but a new creature, according to which we estimate everything as God estimates it. It is to such, the true children of God, that the apostle wishes peace. It was not Israel circumcised after the flesh that was the Israel of God. If there were any of that people who were circumcised in heart, who gloried in the cross according to the sentiments of the new creature, those were the Israel of God. Moreover every true christian was of them according to the spirit of his walk."

    So I do believe in the modern 'spiritual Israel' and this is not a man made organization. Do you believe it also?

    James

  • Emiliano
    Emiliano

    Hi James,

    I guess no one is responding to your last post.
    I pretty much agree with your comments on "Spiritual Israel".
    So my answer would be that, yes I believe also.

    I believe God knows who these people are. But like you say it is not
    identified as one single and exclusive group or assosication of people. It could be anyone who is a true believer in Christ Jesus. These people are taken from all who may profess be believers worldwide. Only God knows who the real ones are.

    Emiliano

  • Jr
    Jr

    Hi James,

    quote:
    Since then Jehovah hasn’t changed His purpose. We are also living in a time, when the opportunity to belong BY SPIRIT to this ‘Israel of God’ is still given to all mankind, including natural Jews. That’s why I believe, Jehovah is fulfilling those prophecies from old in the Christian Congregation. Not due to presumption, or bearing ‘The Name’ as a 'label', or in an organization of men, but BY HIS SPIRIT, this ‘Spiritual Israel’ is all over the world, and we are unified not by the power of men, but by the power of the Holy Spirit.

    I agree. But, I believe what ties this group together is there faith in Jehovah. Like Abraham, we must have this faith to be pleasing to him. This, I beleive, is the common denominator, faith. Faith in Jehovah, the person, his will and purposes. Now, we can't have faith in Jehovah if we believe he is Jesus. We also can't have faith in Jehovah if we think he is a triune God. We can't have faith in Jehovah if we use idols to worship him. Would you agree? We must worship him in spirit and truth. "God is a spirit and those worshipping him must worship him in spirit and truth." - John4:24 What is truth? Truth is basic bible teachings solidly founded in the scriptures. We can't believe in hellfire either. We can't believe we are all going to heaven. These teachings clearly show we don't have a clue who Jehovah is. Or who the God of Abraham was. Job was man not associated with the Israelites, but he heard of Jehovah and worshiped him in spirit and in truth. It is not difficult to see truth in the bible if one is willing to learn it. So, I agree. I don't believe this "spiritual Israel" is man made. They are a people that have a common faith in Jehovah, a people Jehovah recognizes as Israel. It is an arrangement Jehovah prophesied about. He knew it would be like this. He knew his people would be unworthy of his name. Discipline is in store for them. Would you agree?

    JR

  • Thumproof
    Thumproof

    K... I'm a son of a JW elder/overseer who no longer has "eyes sewn shut" -thanks to the wisdom of my patient and scholastic grandmother whom herself was excommunicated from JW's for questioning their teachings. It's clear that the unbiased scriptural points outlined by Emiliano is strait and to the point. I submit this: In the big picture of man's existence it is evident that "Ego" has been a serious trait leading to destruction beginning with Satan. It's fair to assume that ego is not high on god's list ie; "Only the meek shall inherit..." Yet the JW's wish to claim exclusive right to this new earth (heaven's not good enough), along with official tally control of the 144,000, not to mention copyrights to the patent on his Jewish name...er -as if? Hello... does this behavior compliment the word meek? On top of that they kind of Diss Christ like an employee would his immediate supervisor and try negotiatin' with the owner like it's 'sall good. God is sooo deluxe that it would be very unlikely that he would endorse an organization that would make even ONE innacurate or false prediction in his name that later would have to be excused. Why would he even deal with this type of blundering as his official spokeperson? Didn't he use to execute posers from the old testament who were prophesying falsely in his name? It would seem that since God does not change, his serious feelings on this wouldn't either- ya think? One strike -yer out already '75ers. It all comes down to ego again. And from JW historical xfiles it appears that a certain member of Seventh Day _'s ego decided he was pickin' up exclusive channels direct from God that included certification to spawn his own New Translation -and as usual, there is an abundance of sheep waiting for a formula that can enable a believer to feel exclusive, and elite, a thought out program of works that if enacted upon guarantees paradise. I submit that swallowing the pride and taking a humble place amongst ALL fellow christians to be judged individually is really knowing "what time it is" - speakin' of time- I've turned in my time, punched the clock doin' field service patrol packin watches n wakes memorized my sermon in spanish(Father was missionary doin recon for new congregation) even though I didn't speak it. If thats what it's all about then prepare to share that road to everlasting life with the Mormons peddling their way to heaven. K.... nuff said- just keepin' it real, and with all due respect. Peace Out -

  • Emiliano
    Emiliano

    Sirit and Truth

    Jesus said I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14;6

    When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirt and truth, who proceeds from the Father, He will bear witness of Me,.... John 15:25

    The Man Jesus is not the Father
    The Man Jesus has been bestowed the highest name of all, which is
    The name YHWH.(Philipians 2:5-11) The same name he had when he was not a Man. (Zech. 11:12-12) On His second coming, as described in Zecheriah 14:3-4 YHWH will put his feet on the geographical place called the Mount of Olives. Quote from NWT. 3."And Jehovah will certainly go forth and war against those nations as in the day of his warring, in the day of his fihgt, 4.And his feet will actually stand in that day upon the mount of the olive trees, which is front of Jerusalem, on the east and the mountain of the olive trees must be split at it's middle, from the sunrising and to the west. There will be a very great valley; and half of the mountain will actually be moved to the north, and half to the south."

    This is the same YHWH who is speaking in Zech.11:12-13 who said was being valued at 30 pieces of silver, the price which he was turned over to the Romans for crucifixion.And this is the same YHWH who is saying about His second coming in Zech.12;10.."you will look upon ME whom they(the Israelites' ancestors)have pierced". The same YHWH is described coming in Rev.1:7-8 "Look he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him. Yes, Amen. "I am the Alpha and the Omega" says Jehovah God, " the One who is and was and who is coming, the Almighty" This One who is coming is the First and the Last who bacame dead, mentioned in verses 17-18 and who is living forever and ever.

    This First and the Last is the Same Alpha and Omega who has been described in Rev.1:8 as the Almighty. He is identified as coming with his reward in Rev.22:12 "Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is".
    Who is this one who is speaking about coming with the reward?It is non other than the Alpha and the Omega who speaks about coming in Ch.1:8 and the First and the Last who became dead in Ch. 1:17-18 How do we know that the First and the Last from verses 17-18, is the same as the "Jehovah" described as the "Alpha and the Omega" coming with the clouds in verse 7 of the same Ch.1 and as the "Almighty" who is coming inverse 8? The Bible is very clear about weather or not this "Alpha and Omega" is the "First and the Last".
    Rev. 22:13 States it this way: " I an the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end". The Chapter concludes reafirming that this One who is to come, is the LORD JESUS, the man who has been bestowed Name which is above all Names (YHWH), that all knee should bow to the name of Jesus the man. Rev. 22:20-21 concludes. "He who testifies to these things says,"Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all. Amen.

    Believers have faith in this promise, that the Alpha and the Omega, Jehovah, is coming and quickly! Yes, Jesus is coming quickly!

    Come Lord Jesus! Amen

    Emiliano

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