by larc 65 Replies latest jw friends
Lurker
I was actually directing my comments to Seaken2001 and trevor, not to you.
DLJ is as aware as the rest of us that Jehovah does not give cash handouts to those who fail to utilise the gifts he has given them - in other words:
The Lord helps those who help themselves!
Belittling guys like DLJ is not going to help them, in either the short or long term, which is what this site is all about. Constructive comments are the best way to go.
Doodlings from DaveDownunder.
Jehu and other Witnesses above are about to make difficult decisions that will affect their whole lives and the lives of others. Rather than 'usurp Christ's authority,' I have quoted the Watchtower Society's advice given more than 30 years ago. The urgency now is even greater, the time left reduced. Do not let the blood of other fall on you because you were too busy with the things of this world to prove your devotion by pioneering.
"Of course there may be a tempting offer of higher education or going into some field of work that promises material rewards. However, Jehovah God holds out to you young folks many marvellous privileges in his organization. Which will you take up? In view of the short time left, a decision to pursue a career in this system of things is not only unwise but also extremely dangerous. On the other hand, a decision to take advantage of what God offers through his organization opens up excellent opportunities for advancement as well as a rich meaningful life that will never end. Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end." - (Kingdom Ministry - June 1969 - Page 3)
When I read this advice I grabbed a set of ladders and some scrim and went window cleaning and pioneering. It was a fine way to spend my youth. What are kids today made of?
Trevor
Jehu, Lukewarm and other young Witnesses. Here is another priceless piece of advice from God's mouthpiece.
"However because they have allowed themselves to be unduly affected by this system's philosophy and empty deception, they may remark: "Pioneering is not for everybody. Besides, in today's economy you need a university education if you are going to make it." Materialistic and fleshly reasoning are part and parcel of the elementary things of the world - the fundamental precepts and beliefs of worldlings! Yielding to it can cause irreparable spiritual damage."
(Watchtower 15 July1985 Page 13)
Get out there and Pioneer and don't let anything fleshy get in the way.
Trevor
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Edited by - trevor on 8 March 2001 10:42:42
Lurker,
If you are going after Trevor here, you missed the point. He was using sarcasm. If you are going after JLH, that's fine. Your post was unclear.
BTH, Trevor is a very well educated professional. Of course, JHW is not following the party line and is trying to resolve his cognitive dissonance, and people here, I think rightly so, are making him look at that dissonance.
Leon Festinger was the first psychologist to study cognitive dissonce in his classic study where he -blah, blah , blah .... never mind.
Now look what you guys made me do...
*** w92 11/1 17-18 Education With a Purpose ***
Adequate Education
8 This seems, therefore, to be an appropriate time to consider the Christian’s attitude toward secular education. What Bible principles bear on this subject? First, in most countries proper submission to “Caesar” requires Christian parents to send their children to school. (Mark 12:17; Titus 3:1) As for young Witnesses, in their schoolwork they should remember Colossians 3:23, which states: “Whatever you are doing, work at it whole-souled as to Jehovah, and not to men.” A second principle involved is that Christians should be able to support themselves, even if they are full-time pioneer ministers. (2 Thessalonians 3:10-12) If married, a man should be able to provide properly for his wife and any children that may be born, with a little extra to give to those in need and to support the local and worldwide preaching work.—Ephesians 4:28; 1 Timothy 5:8.
9 How much education does a young Christian need in order to respect these Bible principles and meet his Christian obligations? This varies from country to country. By and large, however, it seems that the general trend in many lands is that the level of schooling required to earn decent wages is now higher than it was a few years ago. Reports received from branches of the Watch Tower Society in different parts of the world indicate that in many places it is difficult to find jobs with decent wages after completing simply the minimum schooling required by law or in some countries even after finishing secondary or high school.
10 What is meant by “decent wages”? It does not indicate highly paid jobs. Webster’s Dictionary defines “decent” in this context as “adequate, satisfactory.” What might be termed “adequate,” for instance, for those who wish to be pioneer ministers of the good news? Such ones generally need part-time work to avoid putting “an expensive burden” upon their brothers or their family. (1 Thessalonians 2:9) Their wages might be termed “adequate,” or “satisfactory,” if what they earn allows them to live decently while leaving them sufficient time and strength to accomplish their Christian ministry.
11 What is often the situation today? It has been reported that in some countries many well-intentioned youngsters have left school after completing the minimum required schooling in order to become pioneers. They had no trade or secular qualifications. If they were not helped by their parents, they had to find part-time work. Some have had to accept jobs that required them to work very long hours to make ends meet. Becoming physically exhausted, they gave up the pioneer ministry. What can such ones do to support themselves and get back into the pioneer service?
The bold is mine, obviously.
Hi Seaken
it's amusing to read your posts. You have achieved a remarkable level of delirium not often seen in a JW youth.
Thanks, I try.
Your parents and other superiors must allow for your unique abilities and shy away from re-directing your ambitions for whatever reasons.
Yep, and if you were really in my congregation, you'd see how much allowance has to be made for the 6 youths(self included) currently attending college and a minimum of 5 more who plan to when they graduate. Oh yeah, and an MS and his pioneer wife just moved in a few weeks ago and both went to college. Hmmm...the mind boggles at that one.
LNM, I don't get this point. Would you mind explaining?
You said "the Lord helps those who help themselves."
I find that athiests and agnostics believe this quite strongly.
How on earth could people that do not believe in a god believe that he will help those who help themselves?
And I'm glad you at least stopped with the "I'm going to spit you out of my mouth" comments. Quite a lame analogy. What was I supposed to be doing in your 'mouth' anyway? And I'm not grinning as I post this. Does that mean that you'll want to slap me regardless?
DLJ,
Would you mind printing out the whole article? There is a question at the very end I would be interested in reading, the answer to. BTW it mentioned secondary and high school, and minimimal requirements of law. We all know that youths do not have to complete high school, to go along with Cesear's law(which I don't believe anyone is following anymore the guy is dead right?) But even a high school education will only get you a minimum wage job.
This article was printed in 1992, that is the year I was supposed to graduate from high school. But my parents felt that the end was too close for me to pursue a higher education, maybe they missed this article. I guess it was buried by the overload of no-higher education articles.
So I guess basically it matters who your parents were and how strong their dedication to the org was. Because any good jw knows the sky is falling, oops I mean the end is near! So continue with the education, I am glad you have the opportunity to complete it. But don't think you fool us DLJ, I am not saying we can read your heart I am just saying that well I think you know what I am saying.
Still puzzled why you are talking to us though, I guess it goes along with you being soft about what really is required from a good jw even an elders son.
wendy
Why should Christian youths have to look to support themselves in this system if the end is so near and they won't have to worry about becoming Christian retirees in this system?
Did I say that I and the others want to work until we're 65 and then retire? No. What I have been trying to say is that we're just trying to find something to get by with. At least in my locality, it's almost impossible to do so without a college education. Those who manage to are mainly divided into two groups: Those who managed to find a decent job by 'dumb luck' and those who are working 50-60 hours per week.
There are even examples of some in the congregation that tried to work full-time without any secondary education, not even trying to pioneer. They were soon moved back in with their parents, because the standard of living is too high. There are also those with a college education that still can't 'make it.' I've seen it happen here, JW or not.
Look, I'm here and I know my circumstances and the economy of the area I live in. Jehovah does as well. You do not. I'm tired of arguing with some people on the internet I don't know that actually think I'll listen to them when they resort to name calling. Unless the elders suddenly call me in the back room and tell me that I(along with the tons of other kids) do not need to be attending college, I'll keep going. It's what I need to get by materially. Can we stop beating the dead horse now?
And Mommy, here's the rest of the article. It had stopped the section with that question, so here's the next two.
*** w92 11/1 18-21 Education With a Purpose ***
A Balanced View of Education
12 A balanced view of education can help. For many young people of the world, education is a status symbol, something to help them climb the social ladder, the key to a prosperous, materialistic life-style. For others, schooling is a chore to be dispensed with as quickly as possible. Neither of these views is appropriate for true Christians. What, then, might be termed “a balanced view”? Christians should regard education as a means to an end. In these last days, their purpose is to serve Jehovah as much and as effectively as possible. If, in the country where they live, minimal or even high school education will only allow them to find jobs providing insufficient income to support themselves as pioneers, then supplementary education or training might be considered. This would be with the specific goal of full-time service.
13 Some have taken training courses that have opened up job opportunities enabling them to engage in or resume full-time service. One sister in the Philippines was the family breadwinner, but she wanted to pioneer. The branch reports: “She has been able to do this because she has received additional education to qualify as a certified public accountant.” The same branch report stated: “We have quite a number who are studying and at the same time have been able to arrange their schedules to pioneer. Generally they become better publishers as they are more studious, provided they do not become overly ambitious in worldly pursuits.” The last remark should give us reason to reflect. The purpose of the extra schooling, where this seems necessary, must not be lost sight of or change into a materialistic goal.
14 In a few countries, secondary schools provide vocational training that can prepare a young Christian for some trade or occupation by the time of graduation. Even when this is not the case, in some lands enterprising youngsters with only basic schooling do find part-time work that enables them to earn enough to pioneer. So no hard-and-fast rules should be made either for or against extra education.
15 Many who are now serving in responsible positions as traveling overseers, at the Society’s headquarters, or in one of the branches had only basic education. They were faithful pioneers, never stopped learning, received training, and have been entrusted with greater responsibilities. They have no regrets. On the other hand, some of their contemporaries chose to get a university education and fell by the wayside, subjugated by the faith-destroying philosophies and “wisdom of this world.”—1 Corinthians 1:19-21; 3:19, 20; Colossians 2:8.
Counting the Cost
16 Who decides whether a young Christian should undertake further education or training? The Bible principle of headship comes into play here. (1 Corinthians 11:3; Ephesians 6:1) On this basis parents will surely want to guide their children in the choice of a trade or occupation and consequently in the amount of education that will be needed. In many countries educational and occupational choices have to be made early on during secondary education. That is the time when Christian parents and youths need to seek Jehovah’s direction in making a wise choice, with Kingdom interests uppermost in mind. Young people have different propensities and aptitudes. Wise parents will take these into account. All honest work is honorable, be it blue-collar or white-collar. While the world may elevate office work and disparage working hard with one’s hands, the Bible certainly does not. (Acts 18:3) So when parents and young Christians today, after carefully and prayerfully weighing the pros and cons, decide for or against postsecondary studies, others in the congregation should not criticize them.
17 If Christian parents responsibly decide to provide their children with further education after high school, that is their prerogative. The period of these studies would vary according to the type of trade or occupation selected. For financial reasons and in order to enable their children to get into the full-time service as quickly as possible, many Christian parents have chosen for them short-term study programs in vocational or technical schools. In some cases youths have needed to be apprenticed to some trade but always with a full life of service to Jehovah as the goal.
18 If additional courses are taken, certainly the motive should not be to shine scholastically or to carve out a prestigious worldly career. Courses should be chosen with care. This magazine has placed emphasis on the dangers of higher learning, and justifiably so, for much higher education opposes the “healthful teaching” of the Bible. (Titus 2:1; 1 Timothy 6:20, 21) Further, since the 1960’s, many schools of advanced learning have become hotbeds of lawlessness and immorality. “The faithful and discreet slave” has strongly discouraged entering that kind of environment. (Matthew 24:12, 45) It must be admitted, however, that nowadays youngsters meet up with these same dangers in high schools and technical colleges and even in the workplace.—1 John 5:19.
19 Should supplementary education be decided upon, a young Witness would do well, if at all possible, to take this while living at home, thus being able to maintain normal Christian study habits, meeting attendance, and preaching activity. At the outset a proper stand should also be taken on Bible principles. It should be remembered that Daniel and his three Hebrew companions were captives in exile when they were obliged to undertake advanced studies in Babylon, but they consistently kept their integrity. (Daniel, chapter 1) While placing spiritual interests first, young Witnesses in a number of countries have taken courses to equip themselves for part-time work as accountants, tradesmen, teachers, translators, interpreters, or other occupations that supported them adequately in their primary career of pioneering. (Matthew 6:33) A number of these youths have later become traveling overseers or Bethel volunteers.
A United, Educated People
20 Among Jehovah’s people, whether a person’s occupation is white-collar, blue-collar, farming, or services, all need to be good students of the Bible and able teachers. Skills acquired by all in reading, studying, and teaching tend to dispel the distinction that the world makes between manual and office workers. This makes for the unity and mutual respect that is particularly visible among the volunteer workers in Bethel homes and on Watch Tower Society construction sites, where spiritual qualities are all-important and required of all. Here, experienced office personnel work joyfully with skilled manual workers, all displaying appreciative love for one another.—John 13:34, 35; Philippians 2:1-4.
21 Parents, guide your children toward the goal of becoming useful members of the new world society! Young Christians, use your opportunities for education as a means of equipping you to lay hold more fully on your privileges in serving Jehovah! As taught ones, may all of you prove to be well-equipped members of the theocratic society both now and everlastingly in God’s promised “new earth.”—2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 50:4; 54:13; 1 Corinthians 2:13.
And now it's time to get out of here. I don't feel like arguing anymore. If I ever do, I'll just head to my favorite auto forum. Thanks for the birthday wishes, btw. Even though I don't celebrate it(I'm getting old!), I still appreciate your good intent.
Later
