Hotdogs, I like your site. You've put a lot of care into writing these pages. I don't see any clear errors yet in your statements on JW doctrine. I do, however, notice a number of typos, some of which will trip up the reader. Would you be interested in seeing a list of typos for each page, in order to fix those?
DINOSAURS - What do Jehovah's Witnesses Believe?
by Bloody Hotdogs! 70 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
Bloody Hotdogs!
Hi Apognophos
Yes! I'm horrible at spelling, grammar, and writing in general. Not that I expect you to go through that much trouble….
-
Apognophos
Tell me why are the stones bogus?
1. One red flag is that they are depicting the sort of "ABC" dinosaurs that we all learned about as kids -- tyrannosaurs, brontosaurs, triceratops, and stegosaurs, which is awfully convenient. It's a cornucopia of dinosaurs packed into one little space.
2. They are a bit too "orthodox" -- one would expect some surprises in their appearance since we really only know the skeletal structure and can guess at musculature. There is no indication of feathers or cartilage structures that we don't know about today but it's theorized might have existed. Also, the T-rex is standing upright, which is a discredited posture. They had a massive tail that was used to counter-balance them as they bent over parallel to the ground.
3. They lived in two totally different eras, the Cretaceous and the Jurassic, about 90 millions years apart. One would have to have very good reason to call into question the dating methods used to determine this.
4. A massive conspiracy theory would be required to prevent people from having heard about these.
-
BU2B
When they bring up the "died in the flood" theory, I always ask how they explain the death of all the aquatic dinosaur species, along with ancient sharks and other fish like the megladon. This usually shuts down that line of reasoning. I have also heard the laughable theory since they were put here to flatten the earth...... try bringing up that 99% of all species to ever exist are now extinct! This really gives them cognitive dissonance to the tune that they will invariably change the subject.
-
FadeToBlack
While the JW's have backed away publicly from the earth is only 6000 years old and they do admit that the earth is however many billions of years old, they still hang onto the idea that life and the creative days in genesis are still only (possibly) some 10's of thousands of years (very generous of them). As mentioned above, most JW's have no idea what the current teaching is and frankly don't care.
Same stance regarding regarding things like pyramids of Giza. General hand waving but avoiding the topic (as in: some say the pyramids of Giza were built xxxx years ago). So sad, so dishonest. This is what frustrated me the most: why can't we dsicuss the available evidence?
-
Apognophos
Not that I expect you to go through that much trouble
Naw, it doesn't take long to make a list as I'm reading through an article. I won't do them all at once though :-) But keep an eye out for PMs in the days to come.
I do want to touch on the subject of the length of the creative days, because I see that you are putting a lot of emphasis on it. On the Dinosaurs page you say flat-out that the days are believed to be 7,000 years long, but on the Creative Days page you acknowledge that the Society is currently being vague about the length. Are they simply trying to hide their 7,000-year stance?
It's been suggested by someone here that when they say "thousands of years" in more recent writings, they are trying to avoid stumbling the older JWs who remember 7000-year days, while not directly contradicting the "millions of years" stated by science (after all, millions are thousands of thousands).
So we can't really nail them down as believing in 7000-year days when they won't come out and say it anymore. That's why I think I'd recommend not leaning so heavily on that point. If the last time they said "7,000" was in 1980, then they have not said it in the lifetime of young JWs, and if a JW doesn't think this is what their beliefs say, they will feel that all your arguments which are based on 7000 years are invalid criticism.
P.S.: I have a feeling you're going to get in trouble for the use of Society art, but it's your decision whether to worry about that.
-
_Morpheus
I actually have to revise my earlier remarks.... I remembered some garbage from a few years ago at the last 'zone meeting' where a gb member reafirmed that dionsaurs were killed in the flood (link to the thread below). The caveat here us that its not in print so their feet cannot be held to the fire for it....
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/217395/1/Zone-visit
-
cofty
James - google "ica stones hoax".
-
Bloody Hotdogs!
Thanks Apognophos!
I actually have no idea what the rules are about using JW art. I have tried to only take still images from JW videos, for the purpose of commentary and/or critiscim. I feel like that ought to be allowed, even if it isn't technically…
As for the creative "days": The way I always understood it, JWs base the length of the six days on how long they want/need day seven to be. If the "end" is imminent, day seven must be very close to 7000 years. What's your take on that?
Also, they have stated in very recent literature that each "day" was "thousands" of years long. That would be the most limiting definition thay have commited to, and therefore the one they should be held to (I think...). If they really mean millions, or "thousands of thousands", they have neither said that nor indicated it in any way. They even hedge thier bets on the "thousands" of years, usually saying "may have” or “could have". That is why, I belive, they always clearly differentiate between the millions/billions of years before creation and the "days" of creation.
I think they're deliberatly trying to obfuscate thier true belifes. Due to your prompting, however, I will do some more research!
-
Bloody Hotdogs!
_Morpheus, if only there was a recording!
The infamouse 1990 Awake! (not that long ago) says that scientists cannot answer with cerainty what happened to the dinosaurs or when. Why? According to the article, Noah's Flood screwed up carbon dating! I kid you not.
Since they have never retracted anything in that article, and have never contradicted it with new light, I think we can assume it to be current teaching.