by Simon 254 Replies latest forum announcements
You don't need to see all the evidence to respect the legal process
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Here's an example of the US legal process:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0
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And so we should trust the St Louis prosecutor, whose own policeman father was killed by a black "criminal" to be unbiased.
BTW -- This guy was not found guilty too.
Doc
Yes, because only someone blinded by color thinks race is the be all and end all of everything and the only possible motivator that overrides all others. Just because others can't see anything but color doesn't mean others do as well. What does it matter what color he was? Should he also have a bias against tall people or short people or fat or thin or any other physical characteristic of the person who committed the crime?
This belief says a whole lot more about the people who hold it IMO. They are unable to see anything BUT color. They believe that if someone is black and accused that he must be being victimised. That if someone is white and fired a shot that he must be a no good racist killer.
Race, race, race - as though that's all there is. Well some people can look at what people DO and can be professional and objective. Its possible to see the world as full of different individual people, not just big gangs who have to stick together because they vaguely look alike.
This is the fundamental difference: black people see a black person shot by a white man. White people see a criminal shot by a cop.
And really? Bill Clinton? You think a partisan political scandal and the presidents use of a legal definition has any relevance to this case? As what? Proof that MB was unlawfully killed? Proof that white people are never found guilty? What is the point you think you are trying to make?
The cop was racist.
The police chief is racist.
The coroner is racist.
The prosecutor is racist.
The grand jury are racists.
The black witnesses for the cop are racists.
Everybody who believes the cop was acting in self defense are racists.
You only are not a racist if you believe their BS.
What are the dynamics of the town, how are taxes redistributed, do the citizens feel they are heard by the mayor and city council on matters that concern them.
William Faulkner wrote a trilogy on the dynamics of power on civics. The Long Hot Summer was the film version of The Hamlet. The son in this story reaches the boiling point and commits arson.
Also worth reading is Joseph Wambaugh's The New Centurians- the rise of a militarized police force in Los Angles under Chief Parker starting in the 1950s, the Watts Riots, the causes and aftermath of the Watts Riots and the phenomena of cultural and social masochism.
And really? Bill Clinton? You think a partisan political scandal and the presidents use of a legal definition has any relevance to this case? As what? Proof that MB was unlawfully killed? Proof that white people are never found guilty? What is the point you think you are trying to make?
Bill Clinton was replying as a lawyer. I thought it a great example of how "justice" works in the US. OJ's "not guilty" verdict is another good example.
For me this is not a race issue. Though I acknopwledge that it would never have gotten national (or international) attention had it not been white cop/black kid.
It is an issue about law enforcement in the US and the lack of accountability. Cops can (and do) get away with "murder".
Do you not find incredulous that the US has statistics on how much milk is consumed in schools (just one ridiculous example) or the average length of a duck's penis (true, a Grant from the National Science Foundation to Yale) but there are absolutely NO STATISTICS ON HOW OFTEN LAW ENFORCEMENT KILLS A SUSPECT?
Officer Wilson, like most other law enforcement officers who get involved in something controversial, is being allowed to resign. Such officers simply move on to other jurisdictions with a "clean record". No one reports and tracks the allegations against a cop unless it is something that actually gets a criminal indictment. And if a cop isn't indicted on killing an unarmed suspect, what things do you think might bring an indictment?
Doc
What are the dynamics of the town, how are taxes redistributed, do the citizens feel they are heard by the mayor and city council on matters that concern them.
They have the same right to vote that everyone else does. If they don't take advantage of that right then complaining that they are not being heard is rather lame. Your vote IS the way to be heard. Shouting in the street? Not really the effective channel.
It's a 80-90% black area - they could chose the mayor and council that they want but at the last few local elections the turnout has never been above 12% ... maybe that's all the white folk?
As for tax distribution, I've never see the claim that poor deprived areas are subsidizing richer ones. It's usually the other way round. In fact people living in Baton Rouge want to break away and form their own city because they say they are sick of their kids having a worse school system due to so much of their tax money being diverted. Whether that is fair or not is not the issue and not something I necessarilly agree with but trying to make simplistic claims that they are both poor and oppressed, without a voice and at the same time subsidizing other areas just doesn't add up to me.
Dis-enfranchisement has become the catch word for this. The Game Is Rigged is another way many look at our systems of governance.
I looked at the two Congressional Districts that encompass my town, splits the town down the middle, yet they were redrawn secretly to favor one Party.
Bill Clinton was replying as a lawyer. I thought it a great example of how "justice" works in the US. OJ's "not guilty" verdict is another good example.
It wasn't the justice system, it was poilitics - there is a huge difference. Funny that you bring up the obviously guilty black guy who got off as your other example of how the system is ... what? against black people?
For me this is not a race issue. Though I acknopwledge that it would never have gotten national (or international) attention had it not been white cop/black kid.
It is totally made into a race issue. If it was any other combination of races involved in any possible mix it would not be on the news.
It is an issue about law enforcement in the US and the lack of accountability. Cops can (and do) get away with "murder".
Calling a killing 'murder' doesn't make it murder. If he was killed lawfully then that is unfortunate but you are possibly ignoring the huge contribution he made to his own death.
Do you not find incredulous that the US has statistics on how much milk is consumed in schools (just one ridiculous example) or the average length of a duck's penis (true, a Grant from the National Science Foundation to Yale) but there are absolutely NO STATISTICS ON HOW OFTEN LAW ENFORCEMENT KILLS A SUSPECT?
Yeah, you'd think if they had people who claimed to be leaders for the black communities that they would push for this ... but I don't think they want concrete statistics because all the figures prove the opposite to what they claim. It seems that the number of black kids killed by white officers where there is some controversy / question about what happened is incredibly low.
For all the claims being made you'd expect there to be more compelling evidence that it happens. Strangely, when police wear body camera's the number of cops "caught and prosecuted" for their evil deads doesn't go up but the number of complains against them goes down. Is that because they suddenly don't commit crimes as much or because the "victims" can be proven to be making false complaints more easily? Maybe it's a little of both but I find it hard to believe that people want to believe there are cops who are so racist they want to murder kids in the street without being afraid of someone seeing them who suddenly change.
A good experiment would be to give a police force dummy cameras that they knew didn't record and see if that changed the incidents that people complained about. We've all seen an example recently of what was initially painted as a racist incident that had people in an uproar which was shown to be completely false when more evidence (including video and witnesses) came forward. What if they were not available? Would it have been chalked up as another incident to prove the complaints?
Officer Wilson, like most other law enforcement officers who get involved in something controversial, is being allowed to resign. Such officers simply move on to other jurisdictions with a "clean record". No one reports and tracks the allegations against a cop unless it is something that actually gets a criminal indictment. And if a cop isn't indicted on killing an unarmed suspect, what things do you think might bring an indictment?
"allowed to resign" as though he's lucky?! If it turns out he killed MB in self defense or for another other justifiable reason then that kid and the irrational race motivated reaction to it by the community has ruined his career and possibly his life. You think that is getting away with things? You think they drive round thinking "hey, let's find a black kid to shoot!". You have been watching far too many films and think it's still the 50's.
Most cops are decent and do a tough job helping people and maintaining law and order. When the community steps up to police themselves like they claim to want then maybe criticism would carry more weight but right now it seems they don't care about any amount of crime as long as it's black people committing it (even against other blacks) but as soon as a white cop is involved they turn on the police.
This all has to have a negative long term effect on neighbourhoods and gives rise to the "white flight" that is so often seen. While we can decry the situation it's hard to fault any of the individuals themselves who just want what is best for their own family.
Dis-enfranchisement has become the catch word for this. The Game Is Rigged is another way many look at our systems of governance.
I looked at the two Congressional Districts that encompass my town, splits the town down the middle, yet they were redrawn secretly to favor one Party.
How? Can you give details? When only 12% of people are voting it's hard to believe it's really the way borders have been drawn as even a still low turnout by either party could easily change the results.
And we're talking about local elections here where it's less about party / congress and more about local management of a town.
