"It's the intent that counts and not the result."

donny

"It's the intent that counts not the result."

I have been out of the JW organization for some 22 years now and I sometimes get a reminding jolt out of the hoops that some will jump through to make their religion make sense to them.

The first line in this post is what a JW on the street here in Salinas told me on Saturday when trying to justify the Society's history of false prophecies. I was out for my morning walk when I walked by his stand/display on Williams St.

He wanted to tell me about the wonderful website known as JW.org. After he gave me his little prepared speech advertising this wonderful web tool I redirected him to the subject of the Society's history of foretelling things that never come pass. The conversation continued on.

JW: What prophecies are you referring to?

Me: 1914, 1918, 1920, 1925, circa 1942, 1975, 2000.

JW: And what do you think we foretold on those dates.

Me: Well let me see. 1914 was to be the date of the conclusion of Armageddon. When that didn't happen they said 1918 would see 'Christendom" fall and the governments would follow in 1920.

JW: Excuse me where did you hear that?

Me: I didn't hear it, I read about 1914 in Russell's book series "Studies in the Scriptures." and the 1918, 1920 in "The Finished Mystery" that you guys published in 1917."

JW: I'll have to check it out as I am not familiar with those publications.

Me: I encourage you to do so.

JW: And what about the other dates?

Me: Well 1925 was first mentioned in Rutherford's book "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" published around 1920 as I recall. Then he supplemented the prophecies importance in subsequent issues of the Watchtower. He even went as far as to say 1925 had more scriptural support than 1914 and that the Christian of today (1920's) had more assurance that 1925 was true than Noah has belief in the coming deluge.

JW: I will check that statement out as well.

Me: Then in 1941 in a Watchtower, I am not sure of the date, but he stated that his just released book "Children" was a tool to be used in these remaining months before Armageddon.

JW: Again I have not heard that one but I will check it out.

Me: And I am sure you heard about the 1975 fiasco.

JW: Yeah but we did not actually say it would happen for sure.

Me: In print there is no explicit statement, but it leans heavily in that direction and you can check out You Tube and hear talks by the Society's representatives talking about how any one who waits till 1975 to make a decision will probably be too late. The talk concluded with the line "Stay Alive till 75." No matter how much you spin it, it is obvious what the Society was trying to say about 1975.

JW: I haven't read up much on it so I cannot say for certain.

Me: Then in 1989 a Watchtower in either January or February made the comment that the Apostle Paul was starting a work that would be concluded in "our 20th century." Later when the Bound Volume came out the line "our 20th century" was replaced by "our day."

JW: (and now he finally asks) "Where did you get this information?

Me: I have an aunt who is a JW and she has tried to get me to join and I read up on it and posed these queries to her and got little to no response.

JW: Are you an apostate?

Me: What's that?

JW: Well if you don't know then you are not one.

Me: Sound like a medical condition.

JW: Well in a sense it is (laughs). But, excuse me what is your name?

Me: Ray

JW: Ray the point is that at least the Witnesses were trying to keep alert and stay on the watch versus being asleep at the wheel like the rest of the churches. In other words Ray it's the intent that counts and not the result.

Me: Really? It is better to put forth false information in order to keep the folks agitated than remain silent because one really does not know?

JW: I believe so.

Me: Think about what you just said. It is better to put forth bad data to keep folks excited than it is to wait for clear and concise instructions.

JW: I know it sounds weird but that is the way Jehovah works?

Me: Rally? That is really jacked up in my opinion.

JW: Well you are entitled to your opinion. We will have to agree to disagree.

Me: No doubt!

He then made the excuse he was heading for lunch and began taking down his display. And to think I at one time thought in a similar way.

Abe Ostate

I love his final, desperate, pathetic manuever: "Are you an apostate?" Nice try, bud, but you don't get out of your whupping that easily.

Been_There_Done_That

Amazing; a very nice and accurate interchange of information on your part, I mean an axx whoppen.

Obviously, he has not been in the "truth" for very long.

As a young boy, I lived through the vomit of speculation about 1975, and then the denial after nothing happened. My uncle was removed as bookstudy conductor when he would not teach 1975 at the bookstudy, saying the "scriptures say that no man knows the day nor hour". Eventually, he was removed as an elder but then a DO got involved and reversed it. He eventually resigned, and is out today. Thank God.

About 7 years ago, I purchased online an original copy of "Millions Now Living Will Never Die". IMOHO, a total piece of crap. I had a great grand Father and Mother that spent five years living on the side of the road for five years between 1920-1925 selling "Millions Now Living Will Never Die". They had two children on "the road" in addition to the other three. When 1925 came, Grandmother said, "nothing has happened", and they drug back to family in Waco Texas for help being busted and poooooooor.

I had an aunt that accompanied "the Family" to the convention you mentioned where the Children's Book was released, my mother was baptised and given the book. My family was very poor, but they went anyway. The reason was revealed why they would travel 1000 miles in a flatbed truck in a 25 year old recording of an interview of my aunt: the reason was the WTBTS saying that they were expecting that the ancient "holies" like Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would be resurrected and appear at the convention, I guess belated from the failed 1925 prediction. I think my family were disappointed and nuts.

My Father, (rest in peace) said that the early 1950's WTBTS speculated/predicted harmeggedon would come as they were 40 years from 1914, 40 years then considered a "generation". Nothing happened.

Let's not forget the subtle crap that was said about the 1986 year of peace. A possible proclaiming of "Peace and Security". Then we slowly rolled into the end of the 70-80 year window for the generation from 1984 to 1994. And as you mentioned the printed word from WTBTS that Harmegeddon was to happen before the end of the century but then changed in the bound volume.

Jehovah's Witnesses have been on a 130+++ year SNIPE HUNT led by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society. It's cost of the victims who believed this garbage is unknown and irrepairable.

Simon

Good job, they only have to lookup or come across *one* thing that confirms what you said and they will realise you were telling the truth and the WTS was lying. They will then look more at the other things and perhaps free themselves.

Providing information in a calm and respectuful way ... so much more convincing than shouting at people!

Balaamsass2

Great job. You can't unring a bell.

sparrowdown

Nice work there Donny.

I find it so frustrating how they twist anything into positive. Even false predictions.

Especially when you consider how no other religion gets a free pass from them regarding false or misleading info.

They are so willfully ignorant as to there own publications and history.

pronomono

1925 had more scriptural support than 1914? Hmm, that sounds familiar...... Sort of like how there's more support for 1914 than electricity, wind, and gravity.

Good job on the conversation.

Alive!

Well, that sounds so familiar........frigging madness.

Thank you - I needed to know I'm not just a wicked, unfaithful human being....

I mean - I KNOW that - but it's the horrible imprint from this heavy control that I'm trying to erase.

I was looking a photos of my old Mum and Dad the other day - they didn't like me becoming a JW.

I look at their dear faces and remember how simple and honest they were - and I was just running around with my "special" knowledge...

Lord - LOL - forgive me.

OneEyedJoe

Well done. Hopefully you've sown some seeds.

On the topic of the thread title, I immediately thought of what happens when you criticise the WTS - the moment you so much as raise a genuine question regarding some teaching or practice your intentions are called into question. You could have a completely valid point, but no - you have a fault-finding attitude or you're trying to draw of followers after yourself. Apparently falsely accusing someone of having bad intentions makes it completely unnecessary to answer their question or counter their criticism.

Alive!

Absolutely OEJ.

But once upon a time - I wrote this on another thread...."I was the darling of the congregations" - honestly.

I was a catch.

I'm so ashamed I can't bear it.

Now, I raised a few questions - not in a "tell me' way - but in the way I used to ask questions.....well, I've lost my "lovely sister" reputation and am in trouble.

"It's the intent that counts and not the result."

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