Black girl beat up and bullied by other black for 'acting too white'
Being Irish, Baltic or any other caucasian ethnicity in America is not the same as being black in modern America; you look like the majority.
Racist attitudes are deeply embedded in our culture; they influence incarceration rates, pull over rates, stop and frisk rates, and need I remind anyone, the shooting of unarmed black teenagers.
Or will you argue than a shoplifting offense warrants summary execution?
This new report codifies what has long been suspected: that after other factors are controlled out, whites are mistaken about the level of black on white crime, they overestimate the overall crime rate among blacks and latinos, and they lopsidedly favor more punitive justice.
Eom, I'm sorry to drop the conversation last night, but I went to bed. I haven't figured out the quote function, but I will answer the 3 parts of your response one at a time.
Part 1: There is no evidence for the first scenario, but lots of evidence for the second, namely, that blacks who go through school and are equally qualified suffer more unemployment.
Part 2: Pistoff has provided a great academic paper on the subject and I noticed that all of the references are hyperlinked. Happy studying.
Part 3: I'm not sure I understand your response. My post was about punishment and your response was about crimes committed. I will restate it, though. If blacks compose less than 20% of the population, then there should be a similar ratio in prisons, but there's not. Blacks and whites commit crimes at about the same rate, but blacks are punished more harshly.
The phrase "all other things being equal" means that after controlling for other factors there is still a discrepancy. A well designed study can rule these things out and then come to conclusions based on only relevant data.
Any academic study uses statistics to prove its thesis, so, sparrowdown, it's about statistics as well as stereotyping.
GrreatTeacher - No problem and thanks for the replies, I'm enjoying the good honest dialogue. Back to the convo, you have been saying what statistics show but didn't provide any sources to back them up and seem to be saying that everything statistically that would effect education, crime, etc, are the same but that blacks are just punished more and discriminated against. I'm going to put statistics here with sources since I highly disagree with what you are saying and this is why I disagree.
First, here is a chart by National Kids Count, an organization for helping the wellbeing of children, that shows the number of children in single parent families then it gives percentages for each by race. http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in-single-parent-families-by#detailed/1/any/false/868,867,133,38,35/10,168,9,12,1,13,185/432,431
As of 2012, 67% of black children are in single parent families and 25% of white children are in single parent families and 17% asian. Why is that? Shouldn't it be equal among all races as you claim crime and employment should be as well? Are whites somehow forcing blacks to not get married and not stay with their families? Now many of the black youth who are always in trouble, not all, but many seem to be from those single parent familys. For example the Kroger mob beating that happened 2 days ago, the 15 year old who was arrested for stomping on a head of the white kroger employee and throwing 20lb pumpkins on his head while unconscious was being raised by his grandmother. She said he had been suspended from school, his father was not having a role in his life, etc. I wonder, does that angry 15 year old black boy hate whites because maybe all the problems from his father and mother not being in his life, etc, are all being blamed on whites somehow? Is it impossible that perhaps one of the reasons that more blacks are in prison than whites statistically is because so many don't have parental figures, they grow up feeling abandoned and angry, and just get into gangs and crime? There is no way such a huge difference in those statistics will not have some sort of impact on the communities children. Anyway this is one of the reasons why I was surprised about the so called studies showing no possible causes other than discrimination for higher incarceration rates, unemployment, etc.
"Blacks are punished more harshly" - Can you give some specific examples? I find it shocking when you hear of young blacks 15, 18, early 20's, that have a police record pages long involving theft, robbery, assaults, and seem to be out a few months later. That detroit case earlier this year when those blacks who almost killed that white man who hit a kid and pulled over to help, he could have got 10+ years, the judge gave him only 1 year and probation. I just don't see any discrimination in punishment and prison time for blacks vs whites. All I see is no matter the color, violent offenders seem to be let out more often and sooner than nonviolent drug only offenses, no matter the race.
Demographics - http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.htmlWhites are 78% of population, blacks are 13 percent and asians are 5.3% A
REAL STATISTICS for 2012- (ACCORDING TO THESE STATISTICS, I SUPPOSE THERE IS A CONSPIRACY TO LET ASIANS FREE OF MOST CRIMES IF ALL ARE EQUAL) here is a chart from FBI for 2012 showing total arrests by race and by offense. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf The percentage by race is shown as a percentage of total crimes committed. So for example Robbery, it shows 80, 135 arrests, 35k were white and 44k were black and about 800 asians, out of all robbery criminals arrested 43% white and 55%black and 1%asian. Now since blacks make up 14% or less of the population, are you saying that this country just ignored a whole bunch of white robbery criminals and gave the black robbery criminals a harder time? Or did robbery victimes say, "o he's white, don't call the police"?
Now robbery was one of the few that blacks surpassed whites because blacks are a minority of the population, many crimes whites have more arrests total, forcible rape arrests 65% of total were white and 32% black and 1.2% asian.
THIS ONE IS REALLY GOOD, it actually goes against the claim about blacks being pulled over more. One of the most arrests out of any category was DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE....981,000 arrests, 84% white, 12%black, 2% asian. So Greateacher, are the police being fair in who they pull over for being drunk, because these numbers closely follow the percentage of popluation, but violent crimes they are letting whites go free and picking on blacks more? If there was true discrimination, shouldn't this be showing 30 to 50% of DUI's by blacks as well?
And asians were heavily discriminated as well, even thrown into concentration camps during WW2. Why do they have even less crime rates than whites? Do whites LOVE asians more than themselves and let them get away with things more?
I remember in school asians were almost picked on for being too smart and studying too much and just because they are asian they are smart. In their culture they put a lot of emphasis on hard work and education so statistically many will be smarter because they worked harder for it.
Taking those in consideration Grreateacher, can you please point out in the chart of total arrests for 2012, which specific crimes,arrests are blacks being picked on when whites should be much higher? And can you explain why in almost every category asians seem to be UNDER their popluation percentage for the crime?
EOM looks like touche'
First of all, thanks for the correction on the percentage of blacks and minorities in America. Yes, it appears that blacks make up 13% of the population. I believe that my 20% figure was stuck in my mind because it is about the percentage of all minorities. But, it is important to be precise, so thanks.
Secondly, your understanding of my position is not correct. I am not saying that "everything statistically that would affect education, crime, etc. are the same but blacks are punished more and discriminated against." Those things might very well be different for different racial groups, but whether or not there is proof that they are causal for criminality, especially since i am arguing about punishment not criminality, is irrelevant to my argument. I AM saying that, all other things being equal (meaning controlling for all of those possibilities you mentioned so one is comparing apples to apples) is that blacks are punished more harshly for the same crimes.
This brings me to another point, which is that arrest rates are not really relevant. When I speak of being punished I am talking about the kind of punishment given and the length of the sentences. So, though I do like your FBI reference, it's not really relevant to my argument.
Forgive me while I go eat dinner. If I insult the chef, he might not cook again. :) I'll be back.
I lost an entire post. AARGH! Anyhow, I haven't figured out how to create a hyperlink on a Droid, but if you copy and paste this into your browser, you will find a site with a link on the left to a PDF you can download called Racial Disparity in Sentencing; A Review of the Literature. January 2005.
A review of literature is a great reference because it aggregates results of multiple other academic studies, in this case 40. The conclusion is that blacks are punished more harshly than whites. It's only about 19 pages and I recommend reading the entire thing. Some statistics mined from some of the various studies reviewed:
-white men aged 18-29 were 38% less likely to be sentenced to prison than black men of the same age group
-in the same group, white men were sentenced to an average prison term almost 3 months shorter than black men of the same group
-in another study, blacks charged with drug offenses were 3.6 times more likely than whites to be considered "habitual offenders" in sentencing
-another: whites providing substantial assistance to the prosecution received an average of 23% reduction in the likelihood of prosecution while blacks received a 13% reduction
-a study in Georgia: The % of difference in probability that blacks would be incarcerated for the following drug offenses:
-25% for drug trafficking
-19% for distribution
-12% for drug use
Please read the entire paper. It's not too long and it gives lots of statistics and summarizes the findings.
If there's any more confusion about the concept of "after controlling for all other variables" let me know.
Have a good evening. It's 8:30 on the East Coast, so I'll be hitting the hay soon!
There is a hyperlink!
If someone did that, thank you. Or, is there a Droid god?
And the link works. Just click on the PDF link on the left side of the page to get to the study.
Grreatteacher - the reason for my last post was due to the comments you made, " Eom, simply because your ancestors were white, you benefit from white privilege. You are pulled over less often by the police, you enjoy a higher employment rate and can shop in public without suspicion", "It is backed by statistics. And there is no evidence that blacks are encouraging the phenomenon. "
So in reply to that post instead of it being 'white privilege", 1. whites being pulled over less often by the police - since you didn't show any proof here is a study which DOES support that.... http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/09/you-really-can-get-pulled-over-for-driving-while-black-federal-statistics-show/ it then goes into a breakdown of the reasons why pulled over for each race. For as you stated, "No reason given" 2.6% of whites pulled over were no reason given and 4.9% of blacks pulled over were no reason given. The other 97% and 95% do have actual reasons. I don't know if you want to get into what the reasons may be but only a 2% difference doesn't seem worth debating and no reason given is open for speculation. But for out of 100% of all possible reasons for getting pulled over, 2% less likely for whites for no reason vs blacks, I don't see any privilege there.
For shopping in public without suspicion, It is backed by statistics. And there is no evidence that blacks are encouraging the phenomenon. - that's also why I posted the FBI reports, two charts I linked are good to compare, they have a chart for 18+ and under 18. Those who steal from stores would be under larceny. Out of all arrests for larceny for people over 18 years, 68% white, 29% black and 1.3% asian and for under 18, 62% white, 34% black and 1.8 Asian. It must get really frustrating for the blacks who have never stolen and are very good citizens to get suspicious looks because of the actions of the others, but is it because their skin color is black or because although only 13% of the population, accounting for around 30% of those instances? I'll tell you though, if you want to live in a country that is equal on suspicion terms, move to Costa Rica. EVERY HOME and EVERY BUSINESS is fortressed like a prison compound with razor wire because theft is so bad there nobody trusts anybody. But back to this topic if those numbers are accurate perhaps that's a reason why?
There was something I found very interesting in that FBI report I never heard of before, and maybe it's a cultural thing, but there all categories involving alcohol blacks were the lowest on, like 5 to 8%, far below even the population, alcohol, drunkedness, dui's, etc. Whites blew everybody out of the water on those, 80%+. So statistically, blacks are the least likely to be drunk drivers and have alcohol offenses. Based on those numbers it seems they don't really drink,
O I forgot to mention what I think is the reason blacks may be punished more harshly. I do not think that would at all be a race issue or reason.
Private lawyers cost money, so I think that any poor people, white, black, etc, would be more likely to get harsher sentencing since they don't have superstar lawyers working hard to cut deals and working as much on the case as a public defender who is probably over worked with cases.
So if a large percentage of blacks who shun education and advancement thinking it's too white get into trouble with the law, they probably don't have money for private lawyers so end up with harsher sentences. The way to compare this and know for sure though would be black and white sentencing WITH private lawyers and black and white sentencing with public defenders.
If the only thing being viewed are sentencing as a whole on race without considering private and public defenders then the whole picture isn't being looked at.
I'm reading the article you linked now, I'll post in a bit.