by EndofMysteries 137 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
TD,
I haven't followed details of this story over and beyond what I wrote above. But from what you write it sounds like this little girl was handed a fully automatic weapon to fire! I'm with you. Only the one holding the license should be allowed to operate such a firearm. I know firing ranges that offer unlicensed clients the experience of fully automatic weapons. But I've never understood it. It should be illegal.
A sociological problem arises when various guns of high potential damage are sold openly to the public in that a competitiveness develops to see who
has the badness gun and who can use it to its fullest potential and just plain owning these guns becomes a high in itself.
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I used belong to a gun club in Vancouver Canada and for time I never once saw a member bring in a Uzi or AK-47, Ar-15 .... you get the picture.
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There should be a stated law that forbids minors to fire guns of that stature even in gun clubs.
The guy how got killed brought it on himself out of his own idiocy.
ADCMS
"There are ways to reduce the chance a 9 year old girl will shoot someone in the face with an uzzi accidentally kill herself colliding with a tree while downhill skiing: Dont give her a loaded uzzi and ask her to shoot it pair of skis and tell her to slalom."
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So the next time we hear a story about a 9 year-old who gets into the driver's seat of the family car and accidentally kills her dad by running him over in the driveway, I expect to hear a lot of JWN posters call for the banning of automobiles. The only way to make cars safe is to make sure no one has one.
This is your post where you make a slippery slope argument that banning children from firing uzis would lead to banning skiing and cars. I am not sure how you would read this other than to conclude that the correct course of action is to do nothing since you are clearly not advocating the banning of cars, nail guns or skiing.
So you haven't been claiming throughout this thread that children should not be allowed to do this.
As to your other points, the UK has a much broader definition of violent crime than most countries so the comparison on violent crime is not comparable to the states. The comparison on gun crime is, gun crime in japan and the UK is negligible compared to the states.
Now, you take that you....you SHIRLEY
And now you take that you............you TIGER you.
I'll glance in tomorrow to see if this is still going on.
Caedes: This is your post where you make a slippery slope argument that banning children from firing uzis would lead to banning skiing and cars.
It's not a slippery slope because there is no slope. You are being willfully obtuse, Caedes.
I have never said what you claim I have, but you're going to believe whatever you want to believe. I can't do anything about that.
You are cherry-picking to make fallacious arguments and attributing them to me. You conveniently ignore a following post of mine after the one you cherry-picked. "ilikecheese" said:
I know of dozens of people who would think this story was totally fine. If you can't even drive until you're in the middle of your teens, you shouldn't be firing any guns
ADCMS replied:
"Agreed.
The problem is, when a story like this makes the news, the gun control advocates want to take firearms away from adults, too. I believe reasonable limits, or outright rules against children handling firearms, are not a bad thing."
Note that I did not limit my comment only to children firing Uzi's, as you claim. I used the broad term of "firearms", which further undermines your disingenuous assertions, Caedes.
If you have to cherry-pick, misrepresent and lie to make your arguments, Caedes, maybe you shouldn't be making them.
Read my posts instead of reading into them.
Sure. In which one of my posts did you quote from where I allegedly said this?:
Well, I am going to have to guess what you are actually asking since your question appears to have been edited by someone with a Yoda-like grasp of basic grammar.
If you have to cherry-pick, misrepresent and lie to make your arguments, Caedes, maybe you shouldn't be making them. (post by ADCMS No.3363)
"There are ways to reduce the chance a 9 year old girl will shoot someone in the face with an uzzi accidentally kill herself colliding with a tree while downhill skiing: Dont give her a loaded uzzi and ask her to shoot it pair of skis and tell her to slalom."
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So the next time we hear a story about a 9 year-old who gets into the driver's seat of the family car and accidentally kills her dad by running him over in the driveway, I expect to hear a lot of JWN posters call for the banning of automobiles. The only way to make cars safe is to make sure no one has one. (full post by ADCMS No.3266 italics mine)
Flawed logic caedes.
Accidents happen, whether through deliberate misuse of something or if all safety precautions have been observed.
A firearm is a tool (whether for hunting, self-defense or target shooting) and has an inherent risk in using it. Power saws and air nailers are also tools that have an inherent risk in their use. And, even when done safely, accidents still happen.
The difference is when a carpenter accidentally cuts off a finger or hand with a power saw, no one begins clamoring for the banning of power saws.
If this girl was being instructed in the use of an air nailer, and she accidentally killed her instructor with that air nailer, would you use the same argument you used above?? (Full Post by ADCMS No. 3267)
I see, so if she had killed the instructor with a .22 pistol ("bunny slope") instead of an Uzi ("black diamond run") it would count only as an unforseeable accident?
You must not have read the story, LisaRose. Your argument falls flat, she was "supervised and given instruction that would limit any danger". As I said, had the parents handed their daughter an Uzi, or any other firearm, and told her to go play, all these arguments people are making would be completely valid when the inevitable accident occurred. The fact is she was being instructed by a licensed professional in a controlled setting, a firing range.
Accidents happen. (Full post by ADCMS No. 3268, edited to remove the quote from the person you were replying to)
So those are the three posts where you make the argument that it is just an accident and that if we do anything to restrict childrens access to guns we have to ban cars, skiing, power tools and nail guns. I have quoted you in full, so I am not cherry picking or taking what you say out of context or even attributing something to you that you didn't say. So according to your post if you say that we should stop children shooting uzis we should also ban cars. So what are you saying now? Should we ban cars and and children shooting uzis or is that flawed logic?
There's a big difference between saying "this was an accident" and saying "we should do nothing". Not once in this entire thread have I said nothing should be done.
You went further than merely saying it was an accident as I have shown in your posts above.
So, Caedes, when you can be honest and admit you attributed a quote to me that I did not say, and have been quoting me out of context repeatedly, then you can thump your chest about being honest. However, if you want to continue to put words in my mouth and read into my posts information that simply isn't there, there's nothing I can do about that.
No, I have quoted you exactly and in full from three seperate posts. I haven't taken anything out of context, I have even agreed that you appear to now disagree with your earlier posts. So tell me, can you show me exactly where I have put words into your mouth? Can you be honest and admit that I have quoted you in full and that you still stand by the three posts quoted above? Do you understand by saying that it was just an accident and comparing this to an accident with a power saw you are diminishing what happened?
Ummm...I haven't changed my mind on anything I've said here from my first post. You keep telling me I have, and that is what's confusing you.
If you still stand by the posts that I quoted then you should be ashamed of yourself.
P.S. I did warn you that your statistics were laughable. Did you not realise the daily mail is the UK equivalent to the national enquirer?
" You keep repeating the same non-arguments which are simply empty statements that prove nothing other than you have an opinion."- He had many years of practice as a former JW LOL
I think a dead horse is getting beaten here.
Pictures get posted on Reddit/Imgur from time to time of Israeli service women in mufti with their weapons in full view:
This is the country that gave us the Uzi. This is the mindset of the country that gave us the Uzi. This isn't fun and games. This isn't recreation suitable for a 9 year old. This is a psychological state of war and the Uzi is a product of that.
An unbelievable lapse in judgment by people who damn well should have known better led to a horrible tragedy.
End of story.
