How is the org really run? What goes on behind the scenes?

by Magnum 87 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  done4good

  Apognophos-On the general subject of control techniques used by the WT, I think that a lot of them are pretty common sense, like the shunning practice. Heck, you can see even elementary school kids decide to punish a classmate they don't like by ignoring him. If we've ever met someone who was a people manipulator, did we wonder from where he got a degree in Manipulation? No, we just assumed he came by it naturally. Likewise, the cult control techniques encompassed by terms like "B.I.T.E." are largely obvious and do not take a rocket scientist to arrive at, just a controlling personality. The usefulness of those terms is in helping people recognize if they are being controlled, but I don't believe that the presence of these techniques implies that the one practicing them studied them in a book beforehand, or even knows he is using them.

  Exactly. That is why I do not like the term "mind control". While it is not incorrect to state that mind controlling techniques are in use, (by either the org. or JWs themselves), it is incorrect to assume these techniques are being used deliberately with hurtful intent. Witnesses have been taught to be manipulative and passive aggressive by example, in most cases from birth. The current leadsership in the org. is no different. They were once R&F too, and spent decades in most cases being manipulated themselves. They know nothing else. Once again, they have not figured out some brilliant scheme of deception for personal gain, rather, they are just replicating what comes natural for them.

  d4g
• 

  done4good

  Apognophos-Personally I don't think I've ever seen any hard evidence that JWs have a bigger problem with depression than non-believers, so while it's true that they are not "the perfectly happy people on earth", saying that they are the "happiest" people is a claim which is harder to knock down.

  Now this I do not agree with. Of course, I have no hard emperical evidence to know that there is a greater degree of depression among JWs than the general population, but I do believe there is ample anecdotal evidence.

  I have been fortunate enough in my life to have an education, and good career, that has allowed me to have a social network large enough to see a large enough sample size of the general population. I also spent most of my life, (including most of my adult life), as a JW. I have been on both sides of that depression scale myself. There really is no comparison. Not that depression does not exist among non-JWs, but it is not as severe, and does not affect the same percentage of that sample.

  What can you really expect from a group whose overall lives are based on false expectations, (and all of the bad life decisions that come with that mindset)?

  d4g
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  Apognophos

  Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that I didn't think there was a bigger problem among JWs. I don't have the experience to form an opinion on that. Likewise, I don't think it's going to be clear to a guy in Writing who has maybe never lived "in the world" and Bethel is all he knows. I was just saying that I haven't seen a study that proves that JWs have more of these kinds of issues. If there were studies out there, we could more readily say that the Society is ignoring the facts and intentionally misleading people.
• 

  Vidiot

  How is the Organization really run?

  When I read about the blunders the WTS has made over the years, I sometimes remember Ben Kingsley's line in Sneakers...

  "Don't kid yourself, it's not that organized."
• 

  Vidiot

  Justnowout - "The GB likley do the same, only the authority they obey is the imaginary god of the hebrews."

  Ray Franz reported in Crisis of Conscience that they didn't even do that when he was there; they just referred to older precedents set in WTS publications.
• 

  warehouse

  done4good wrote:

  In other words, the larger evolutionary changes neccessary for survival long term would really involve changes the organization is incapable of making.

  We should entertain this theory. We see the organization making some changes recently, though they are minor in comparison to what you're talking about, even including sell-off of property and so forth. What sweeping changes could really be made to ensure survival of such an inhomogenous, delusional sect?
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  Apognophos

  I would actually challenge anyone to demonstrate why the Society would ever not survive. Because I don't see how the Society can financially fail now that they've divested themselves of those big, old buildings in Brooklyn.

  Their only major expense now is printing, which is clearly being phased out. Additionally, it's been pointed out here that the cost of printing can be shifted entirely to the publisher, who would be asked to print their own pubs off jw.org. Maintaining even a large web site costs nothing compared to running a printing press.

  It's true that they still have to build KHs in poor lands and hope that the money from the developed lands covers those expenses, but think about how underused many KHs are. Unless the KHs in the city are more heavily used, there's usually a few nights a week that a Hall is empty. Now that they've canceled the separate Book Study night, even during a CO visit, each Hall has another free night for an additional cong. to meet. They can simply pack the existing Halls more tightly, merging cong.s if necessary. On top of that, if worse comes to worst, they can follow the example of the early Christians and move meetings to private homes and sell the Halls.

  I know it's painful to contemplate, but I just don't see a way that they can fail. I think all their recent changes are exactly what are needed to ensure their financial survival.
• 

  metatron

  I have to ask, survive as what, exactly?

  I have to openly ask the same question I must confront myself - if they became an ordinary burned out Protestant sect, would that be good enough? Do I need revenge to close this avenue of my life? Would I only be satisfied if they collapsed and disappeared?

  Things WILL change. Things ARE changing. Maybe it works out for everybody, even idiotic Witlesses. Maybe that's an outworking of compassion.

  metatron
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  Focus

  Q: What goes on behind the scenes at the top?

  A: Discussions on how to gradually liquidate as much of the real estate as is prudent, and invest the money in more liquid form where it may not be (so) subject to seizure.

  The fear of large-scale lawsuits against the Society, liquidated damages being assessed on the adverse QOL impact of WTS involvement and teachings - including impact on non-members who suffer due to a loved one - may be one of the motivators. There could be millions of injured parties. At a few thousand dollars each, it would destroy the Beast.

  __

  Focus

  ("AttacK!" Class)
• 

  Apognophos

  I personally don't care if the whole org. dies or not, I just want to see the harmful policies revoked. If it became a more easy-going, "toothless" sect, that would be all I could ask for. People can feel free to believe silly things about 1914 and Bible prophecies as long as policies like shunning and no blood are phased out. However, I don't really see a pressure on the Society to revoke them, esp. since the blood teaching was altered to allow fractions.

  What's more, some of the more pernicious aspects of the religion are not as obvious as shunning and blood. The "non-JWs will be destroyed" teaching is what causes family of ex-Witnesses a lot of anguish, and a ban on masturbation is a harmful Victorian-era teaching that causes a lot of completely pointless guilt.

  Unfortunately these teachings are not entirely unique to JWs, and fundamentalists in general have a lot in common with the Witnesses. So what that tells us is that there is a persistent market for this kind of black-and-white mindset. If it were unique to the JWs then perhaps it would be more likely to die out. But a certain section of the population wants to keep believing in eternal damnation (or cutting-off, if you're a JW) and that the world is incresingly full of sin and on the verge of destruction.