I have long observed on a local level the playing out of both the "stanford" experiment and "milgram" experment principles and i strongly susspect it applies to the GB as well. People live up to what expected of them. Prior to learnimg the TATT, I have sat in elder meetings and argued with jack behinds, implored them to understand that we have the authority to make decisions that best suit local needs, only to have the rest of the room defer to what they ASSUME the branch would want. The GB likley do the same, only the authority they obey is the imaginary god of the hebrews. It allows them to follow their own subliminal desires and attribuite it to "god"
How is the org really run? What goes on behind the scenes?
by Magnum 87 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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jhine
I'm not just talking about Watchtower deceptions but the whole mind control thing . They have definately followed the patterns of mind control / brainwashing devised by the (I think this is the right country ) Korean government when they were trying to "turn " American troups . These are scientifically designed methods of thought and behaviour control which have been copied by the org . There is a lot online , obviously ,about this and IMO it makes fascinating reading .
Jan
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jgnat
Several scenarios are offered as to how they got so good at control, jhine. They could have stumbled on what works so kept at it. They improved through evolutionary selection. I think they have made mistakes in the past couple years which will hurt them in the long run.
Rather unique with with the Witnesses is the long recruitment, minimum six months. I think this leads in many cases to a long awakening. I think Hassan has had better success "snapping" other cultists out of their dream. It is a rare outsider who will patiently lead a Witness to their authentic persona over six months or more.
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Frazzled UBM
jhine - I agree with jgnat. The organisation is self-perpetuating. The GB like the board of any corporation, gets power and prestige in return for serving the interests of the organisation. The organisation has been employing manipulative tactics since its inception and these tactics have been refined and perfected over time. If you asked a GB member they would deny that such tactics are manipulative - they would see them as necessy (the end justifies the means) and as they progressed up the organisation by accepting the legitmacy of the organsiation and its tactics it would not occur to them that there is anything wrong with those tactics. Liek any corporation board, their mission is to at least maintain and if possible grow market share and they adjust and adapt their tactics over time to achieve this. Cheers Fraz
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metatron
I think we need specific examples of their skillful deception or mind control that must reasonably originate beyond the 'cut and try' of social evolution within a cult.
Within this category, I can think of a couple examples.
Years back, they had a Watchtower study that glorified the annointed as expecting the 'bridegroom' in 1914. There was not one mention of the fact that they DID NOT BELIEVE that the 'second presence' started in 1914 UNTIL the mid-1920's. They went thru 1914 believing that Christ 'came' in 1874.
To me, that was blatant deception by omission - consciously misleading people.
Secondly, their handling of the "depression" crisis involves outright lies. For some years, the Awake magazine struggled with the issue of how to deal with depression. They even endorsed cognitive therapy, at one point. I assume that the problem became so chronic that it embarrassed them into taking action....
by outrightly lying, "JW's are the happiest people on earth". Did they do a scientific study to prove this? Can they disprove the evidence of brain scans of Buddhist monks who manifest the greatest bliss so far recorded? What about Witness suicides? What about the huge amounts of psychoactive drugs that Witnesses commonly take - including marijuana (now legal in many places as medicine)?
They now have a Public Talk using this deliberate lie in which they make this assertion about Witness happiness. If it were not a lie, the Talk should end shortly after it's introduced ( "well, we're the happiest people on earth. Isn't that wonderful? Thank you" - speaker sits down).
perhaps there are other examples you guys could think of......
metatron
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Apognophos
Didn't the Bible Students actually expect the bridegroom in 1914, though? Sure, Christ's presence had begun in 1874, but supposedly they expected to be "transferred" in 1914, which would have meant becoming the bride to Jesus (ew) at that time. I could be wrong, but that's my understanding.
Unless you're saying that it was misleading because they phrased the expectation in just the right way to avoid admitting that Christ's presence had been placed 40 years before that. If that's what you're saying, I guess I would just say that I can easily imagine a brother in the Writing department trying, in good faith, to represent the beliefs of the Students in the best light possible. "Well, they didn't know when Christ came to power, but hey, they expected him in a different way in 1914! I'll just phrase it that way." It's somewhat deceptive, yes, but the intent was to make the org. look good by giving them credit for a partial hit (only a hit for people who believe in the 607–1914 teaching, of course).
Your second example is an interesting one. Perhaps they really don't know the extent of the problems among JWs, just attributing any unhappiness among them to "this old system" and Satan's attacks, and assuming that worldly people are even worse off. Or perhaps they secretly feel that the JWs who aren't happy are not really good JWs and thus they're not being protected by the holy spirit. Personally I don't think I've ever seen any hard evidence that JWs have a bigger problem with depression than non-believers, so while it's true that they are not "the perfectly happy people on earth", saying that they are the "happiest" people is a claim which is harder to knock down.
I'm not familiar with the study of Buddhist monks you mentioned. If the perpetuators of that "happiest people" factoid are not familiar with it either (and we don't really expect them to be, do we? How well-educated are the JW writers again?), then they can be excused for writing a falsehood on grounds of willful ignorance, rather than willful deception. The writers show their willful ignorance any time they touch on evolution, for instance.
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On the general subject of control techniques used by the WT, I think that a lot of them are pretty common sense, like the shunning practice. Heck, you can see even elementary school kids decide to punish a classmate they don't like by ignoring him. If we've ever met someone who was a people manipulator, did we wonder from where he got a degree in Manipulation? No, we just assumed he came by it naturally. Likewise, the cult control techniques encompassed by terms like "B.I.T.E." are largely obvious and do not take a rocket scientist to arrive at, just a controlling personality. The usefulness of those terms is in helping people recognize if they are being controlled, but I don't believe that the presence of these techniques implies that the one practicing them studied them in a book beforehand, or even knows he is using them.
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jhine
thanks jgnat and Fraz ,
Jan
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metatron
"the intent was to make the org. look good".
Yep, that's always the goal in these deceptions, isn't it? The bridesmaids was chillin' 'cause the Lord came by 30 years before. Try finding 1874 in the Proclaimers book. It's there, but you gotta dig a bit. Typical of them. The large print giveth but the small print taketh away.
I don't think you 'get' the "happiest" lie. There are widely accepted tests to determine depression. Has anyone done a proper survey? Published the results? Depression can be measured objectively - and they are already on record (BOE letter and KM) as opposing scientific surveys.
What I perceive is a reactive lie. They had so much trouble with Witnesses reporting depression (and I recall that our CO, at the time, was locally consulted about it), they had to conceal their embarrassment. Declaring that JW's are the 'happiest' after many years of magazine articles on depression should not be viewed a revelatory New Truth! Just a lie invented (No Different From The World) to conceal a threatening problem.
How threatening? I nearly got into trouble with an elder's relative when I simply said that "the purpose of life is happiness NOT serving Jehovah because what would be the point of eternal life if you were unhappy?" That thought blew her mind!
Again, if a RECENT Public Talk makes the assertion, "JW's are the happiest people" with no supporting data whatsoever - and then continues for the rest of the half-hour telling how to supposedly be happy - then not only is it a deliberate lie but they know it is a lie as the continuance of the topic testifies that it is a critical problem. Or do they really wish to say 'well, if you're unhappy, you're not really a Witness'?
What, another lie to support the 'happiness' lie?
metatron
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John_Mann
Like others said the WT is a product of darwinian evolution.
A memeplex under evolution forces.
Evolution can create an illusory sense of design but it's totally blind.
Now it's just an Ouroboros.
Jgnat has a point about the food triangle in WT: GB+Doctrines+R&F. It's a trinity, you can't speak of one without mention the others.
Surely there's a lot of individuals who benefits directly from the WT, both high ranks and locals, but there's no man-behind-the-curtains.
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Apognophos
Again, if a RECENT Public Talk makes the assertion, "JW's are the happiest people" with no supporting data whatsoever - and then continues for the rest of the half-hour telling how to supposedly be happy - then not only is it a deliberate lie but they know it is a lie as the continuance of the topic testifies that it is a critical problem.
Maybe it's just a lie, out and out, but it might be a lie that the liars are telling themselves as they tell it to us. In other words, self-deception because they want to believe it's true.
Or do they really wish to say 'well, if you're unhappy, you're not really a Witness'?
I think they might be implying that an unhappy Witness is one who isn't "focusing on the Kingdom". A sort of "You're not happy as a Witness? Well, you're not doing it right" kind of response.