STARTING OVER with my Elderette - What Does the Bible REALLY Teach?

by Faithful Witness 59 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Oubliette

    Miss K: Most of the people who are spreading information, or saying, 'I used to be a JW, and I can tell you how it REALLY is...' have a lot of hurt feelings, and they will try to cause you to doubt every little thing you hear from the JW's.

    And just why exactly do you suppose they have these "hurt feelings" and why exactly might they say things that could "cause doubt" about what JWs say?

    Could they possibly be right?

    Sign of a Cult: "Never talk to former members. They lie."

    Miss K: They make the choice to be disfellowshipped.

    Now that is just completely untrue. Whose lying now, Miss K?

  • sarahsmile

    She so brain gone!

    Read the Make Sure under Abortion. They have a clause under certain circumstances life or death of the the mother. Just saying most JW do not read their Make Sures or what ever book it is now. Now, compare it to people who do not believe in abortion there is no clause!

    She qoutes from old WT so she has a set concept how the study should go. You did a good job but it went over her head.

    The new light conversation is so wrong!

    Personally it is sad that you have to do this to get back in your families favor.

    She is the type that will walk out when something goes wrong! Preach and change over night!

    She ure was wrong about dfd ones. They do not make a choice and are treated harshly.

  • Crazyguy

    Next time you talk to her about asking questions tell her you know a guy that wrote a 13 page document that clearly showed how jesus is the mediator for all mankind and that all who believe and do his will etc are in fact sons of god not just the 144k. He took that document to his elders and they could not prove it wrong so they told him that he would have to wait on Jehovah and be sure and not run ahead of Jehovah's organization. They elders were quick to make sure and inform the brother not to say or share his findings with anyone in the congregation for that would be apostacy. This brother then wrote a letter asking the branch the same questions and included all his research and they would not answer his questions or even make a coment other then to say "we believe what we believe and if it changes we will publish it".

    So ask why the brothers hide behind threats of apostacy when someone clearly finds a flaw in thier teachings instead of making the adjustments so that thier teachings are always and accruate and true as possible?

  • Phaedra


    Been following your posts on this with interest.

    Gotta say that I feel for the genuine attempts and sincerity JWs have in trying to help people... they are under compulsion to volunteer their time for a cause they believe in. Both my parents could be your brother and sister K...

    She thinks she might have a chance to help you... and you think the same. I hope your gentleness opens a crack in her armor so she might see some new light of a different kind.

    I tried to study again a few years ago with the Bible Teach book and a smart sister who I respected a lot. I was trying to find the solid foundation to go back, but once I was outside the box I could never go back in. I wanted so much to believe everything she told me and researched and believed with all her heart. I just couldn't do it and had to cut the cord.

    I admire your tenacity. I feel for their blindness.


  • mgmelkat

    This pastor has "witnessed" to JW. He writes his conversations out with a JW elder. Makes very good reading. He has opened my eyes up to many things!!!!!

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    mgmelkat: I have read Keith's blog also! It is so enlightening. I love his approach. He just started a new book study with a different pioneer (elder), as the first one finally ditched him. Anyone who is not familiar with his ministry, and who has compassion for people trapped in cults, should check it out! Thanks!

    Phaedra: That is sort of what happened our first time around with the JW's. We studied, and it came to the point where I was trying to convince myself. It would have been wonderful to find out that the Watchtower really DID have the truth, and that they were following the teachings of Jesus and that their works and preaching WERE pleasing to God. I could never become convinced, especially after seeing the evidence that we saw (it was the tip of the iceberg). After that, we had to stop going to meetings. We were just going for the fellowship at that point, and I'm not someone who is able to keep my true feelings a secret for long. Why lie to people, just so they will be your friends? We realized we were being deceptive, by going to meetings every week, just so we could enjoy the company of a couple of families that my husband and I really did love. Of course, after we stopped going to meetings, the friendships all ended.

    The people from that KH will still greet us in public, except for a few, who seem to have a strange fear and almost hatred toward me.

    sarahsmile: What is the "Make Sure?" I have never heard of that.

    Oubliette said: Sign of a Cult: "Never talk to former members. They lie." -- EXACTLY!! This is what I realized, when my sister (out of naivety and I think she thought she was actually going to help me somehow), sent me an emailed scan of an article they studied about 6 months after we stopped going to meetings. She said, "I'm not saying that you are a bad person, or anything..." The article was about avoiding anyone who had left the organization. "Mentally diseased... Ravenous wolves... They want to draw you away from the organization that they once loved!"

    It was SHOCKING to me to read that article. When she sent it, it was about 2 weeks after her husband had cornered me (ALONE) and accused me of "turning my back on Jehovah." I cried, and told him what had happened, and how our teacher would not answer our questions. I was sobbing and telling him the story. They were so new (but already baptized), and this was the first time they even heard that there was any evidence against the JW's. His reaction was to tell me "You should go to your dad. He'd love to answer your questions..." That's not the kind of relationship I have with my dad, so I ended up retreating. I had already been programmed far enough, that I did not want to "stumble" anyone else in their faith.

    OH! What a terrible mistake I made, in not sharing the evidence we had found. We were so stunned by the stories we heard, and then by the reaction of our teacher, we ended up dropping the whole issue and trying to forget about it. Then I had surgery, and my mom came for a visit (she was not yet baptized). I was on some heavy narcotic pain meds, and proceeded to tell her about my sister sending me that article. I remember I was crying and saying how things look so much clearer, after you stop going to the meetings. I said, "Only a CULT will tell you not to listen to outside information! Why do they need to control what you read, and why are you not even allowed to CONSIDER any other information?" I think I scared her, but she didn't say anything. I know my mouth was on autopilot, because of the Percocet. The physical pain I was feeling was overwhelming, and I was very emotional. It was very cathartic to finally spill my guts... hahaha. Too little, too late, I'm afraid! :'( I wonder if my mom thought that Satan himself had come upon me that evening. LOL!

    leaving_quietly: Thank you for that reference! My other Christian friend found this interesting also. She said, "The Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible either, but it is clearly a Bible principle that is being taught." Not to start a debate about that hot topic, but I thought that was a good point also.

    Bob: Great reference in Acts! Thanks!

    About your previous comment, with me on stage at a convention: I have already given speeches about the JW's and the way they "almost" got me. I had a ladies' bible fellowship group ask me to come and share my story once, and it was interesting to see the reactions that I got from these so-called "mature" Christian women. When I share my story with Christians, I usually try to put it in a nut shell. "I almost became a Jehovah's Witness." Of course, this is really not true. I never even got to the point where I knew what was required to become a member. Since most people in America have had a JW at their door at some point in their lives, many find my experiences and inside information interesting. I am still working on a more concise way to spread the message (and warning) to people who are willing to listen.

    JW's are not just a harmless little sect. Those nice people that come to your door are under dangerous mind control, and they are spreading false teachings. It took me a long time to realize that this false religion makes a BUSINESS out of denying Christ. They do it every day, and they make a big show of it once a year, when they MOCK the ceremony of the Last Supper. They lure in people who are lonely, and promise you happiness and security. After they convince you that the world is a terrible place, and that every religion (except theirs) is false, you start to believe there really is "nowhere else to go." They keep you so busy with meetings and fruitless work in the fields, that you don't have time to realize what is happening to you. One day, you wake up and wonder, "How did this happen? How did we get HERE?" Whenever I meet a JW, I really feel compassion for that person. I have been hurt by the way the religion has torn my sister from me, and has caused this big rift in our family. "Jehovah's Witnesses divide families," was a statement my mother made, when she first learned that we were studying with them. She even approached my evangelical cousin, and asked her to pray for me to stop talking to the JW's. Look how the tables have turned! Now I am the outcast in my family, because I did not follow the organization. If more people would respond with kindness and compasion for the JW's who come knocking, if more people were willing to give these innocent souls the message of hope and freedom, their field service work could actually be their salvation. If more householders were informed and cared enough to react, there might be a chance of rescuing some people. I think too many of them really think there is "nowhere else to go."

  • Faithful Witness
    Faithful Witness

    Another question I just thought of:

    We were told that we actually live in the territory of one KH, even though we attended another. When we moved, we naturally thought we were supposed to go to the one that shared our zip code. Apparently, we are near the border of the territory. We regularly get called on by the local KH (that we never attended).

    I told this to Miss K, and she seemed genuinely surprised. She really thought I was in the territory of her KH. I don't know if she was worried for the reason that she expressed, "We don't want to be doing double visits to people and bothering them!" (referring to my neighbors). I know that there used to be a lady who lived out the last years of her life at an old age home across the street from us. We never met her, but occasionally JW's from our old KH would come and visit us, when they were "calling on" her also.

    cha-ching -- If we are home, I am always good for a little conversation! Come by anytime and visit lonely old me! (I love my fishing spot.)

    I'm just curious if this really has an impact. I'm assuming she will continue the study.

    Also, WHY have we not received an invitation to the International Convention?? I didn't get one from Miss K, and there was never one left in my doorjam either. Maybe it is still coming...??

  • LoisLane looking for Superman
    LoisLane looking for Superman

    Faithful Witness... How soon is the Detroit convention? I am surprised Miss K hasn't given you your very own personal invitation. ( lol )

    As regards Miss K having a Bible study outside of her congregations boundaries, ah, I don't know how she and her Circuit Overseer will swing her possibly forthcoming interview at the next circuit assembly, with you, not living in her congp .

    If her CO is used to using her as the model pioneer in the circuit, they will swing something. Miss K would not want you in the audience though, because between her and the CO they will rewrite history to help cheer on the WT drone troops.

    -----> Do you think it is possible, Miss K is already lined up to give her "experience" with you at the Detroit District Convention? and ? ??

    It is possible.

    In that case she definately would not want you there to hear how she has used WT Bible aids to teach you the Bible.


  • berrygerry

    It is probably on here somewhere, but was reading Matthew yesterday.

    The ONLY directive that COULD be applied to JW work Mt. 28:19 (Mt 24:14 is a prophecy, not a directive), which directive is to baptize in the "name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit."

    How would Miss K say JW's measure up when comparing Jesus' words with the actual 2 questions asked at baptism?

  • Apognophos

    I doubt she would use you as an example yet on stage at a convention. You'd have to have made some real "progress" before she could do that. Probably it's not time yet to hand out the invitations, as this is not done more than a month beforehand.

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