Want to know why people accept evolution ?

by snare&racket 84 Replies latest jw friends

  • Make Lemonade
    Make Lemonade

    Snareandracket: Thank you for starting this thread. My mind wants the answers to the questions this thread raises. For many years looking into this was not even a consideration. I just dismissed it in many ways. This process will be slow for me because of other competing subjects. Having a place to refer to often will be a benefit to me.

    Now that I have "intellectual permission" to investigate, I want information like this. Will be focusing on this thread now that it is here.

    Again, Thank you and the contributors for taking your valueable time to share what you already know. It is appreciated.

  • villagegirl
    villagegirl

    I love science. I love reading Scientific American, and I took Biology,

    Physics and Chemistry and Astronomy, at a university level, outside my

    major, just because I wanted to understand how things work. I love the

    new Hubble deep space photos on the NASA site, I am amazed at the intricacy

    and beauty of the natural world around me and the microscopic world I cannot see.

    I am facinated by strange creatures that live on this planet, from insects to

    deep sea life forms. None of anything I every read in Science made me doubt

    the existance of God, it has challenged my ideas of the nature of life that exists

    in the non material or other dimension or in some form that is unknown to me

    or anyone. I wonder who or what God is, why he exists, what other life forms think.

    I wonder about evolution in that I wonder if life is progressive, moving towards

    higher forms, like evolution assumes. Evolution assumes things go upward

    from lower to higher forms, with us being at the "top".

    People the smartest ones on the planet.

    From one celled organisms to more complex organisms,valued by brain size.

    Mabye thats simply because we judge other life forms by our limited ideas

    of what the purpose and meaning of life are.

    Am I more important than a Bee colony ?

    I certainly do less important work.

    Do Bees as a collective think higher thoughts than I do ?

    Do other life forms have a more successful relationship with the Creator ?

    Do they see things we do not ? Why do evolutionists discount so many aspects

    of intelligence in other life forms. ???

    Evolutionists used to believe only humans used tools.

    Because no one was paying attention, meanwhile all kinds

    of animals were using tools. Evolution seems to me

    to be a male invention based on their own vanity and

    need to be on top. No pun intended.

  • sparrowdown
    sparrowdown

    Alas, I am a bear of very little brain.

    Otherwise I would probably have a question or two.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Evolution assumes things go upward from lower to higher forms, with us being at the "top". - Villiagegirl

    The great "chain of being" is more than a century out of date. Nobody has viewed evolution in those terms since Victorian times. Evolution sows us we are part of the living world, not a special creation.

    Having said that, we are special. Our big brains gives us huge potential that we can use for good or bad.

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    make lemonade, feel free to join in xxx

  • cha ching
    cha ching

    Am I free to join in toooooo?????

    OK, so, now we have turtles..

    http://www.asknature.org/strategy/f98e7a8e7a954bf5cb3240c74a60a5fe#.U0FT9yxOU1o

    "An alligator snapping turtle lies in wait for a passing fish, well camouflaged against the muddy river bed. Like all turtles and tortoises, it has no teeth, but its jaws are covered in a sharp-edged horny beak suitable for shearing flesh. On the floor of its mouth is a fleshy pink worm-like lure, which the turtle waggles to attract fish. Eager to seize the 'worm', a fish may swim right in the turtle's gaping mouth."

    How did THIS turtle "think" / "get" this worm tongue? Did he "need it"? No, there are lots of other turtles that "survive" w/o it.

    Once he "got" this 'worm tongue', he had to survive to pass it on to his kids... But maybe he didn't find a mate, and died off before he could, or maybe his gene pool did not let him pass this gene on, and his kids did not inherit it...

    How did he learn to use it? Did he even know he had it? and how did his kids learn?.... etc.

    Any ideas? Explanations?

    I would love to hear.......

    cha ching!

  • Make Lemonade
    Make Lemonade

    Snareandracket: O.K. I accept your invitation. This is to aid in understanding "how to reason" with Jehovah's Witnesses. Have to warn you that people say I think differently. I have been laughed at regarding my conclusions, but usually I can laugh with them. Just had that happen at a witnesses stand not to long ago.

    I would first suggest you consider the legnth of time a person has been a witness. 1987 would be a dividing line. That was the last specific statement that the creative days are 7,000 year long. The January 2014 Awake article on creation is vague on the length of the creative days (Alan F. critique 1/2014 Awake).

    Younger witnesses are given the "intellectual freedom" to imagine the creative days as thousands of years long. They can imagine enough time for life on the planet to have been brought about by God thru his Holy Spirit. "All things are possible with God"

    Older witnesses, pre 1987, are having to conform there thoughts to a specific length of time. That is 50,000 years. However the last 1,000 years are for Christ's reign so the window is reduced to 49,000.

    So in my opinion an important part of discussing, evolution versus Watchtower teachings, is the matter of how old is life on earth? When a witness is faced with contradictions, the fall back position is, "But let God be found true, though every man be found a liar" Rom. 3:4. So your approach to ask those willing to discuss is right on target. Your audience needs to be open to the discussion first.

    Next in my way of thinking is to view the origen of the universe. To this day you can find a similar divide among young and old witnesses. Steady State vs Big Bang. This is where I am laughed at by witnesses. When I state that I believe God used the big bang to create the universe it invokes out load laughter. I even believe I can use the Watchtower literature to prove that is the case. Even more laughter follows that statement. At least people are haveing a good time.

    Anyway, back to your point of how to reason on science/evolution. Perhaps start the discussion not as evolution vs. the Bible. Rather the discussion would be: What does the Bible teach about the origen of life?

  • DuvanMuvan
    DuvanMuvan

    "Evolution seems to me

    to be a male invention based on their own vanity and

    need to be on top."

    This coming from the person who reffered to god as a "he"?

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    Village Girl;
    What on earth does the male sex have to do with anything, mitochondrial dna came from mothers and there is no sex in the earlier organisms. It is quite the opposite of what you have said so why did you say that ? What have you been told...because it was a lie.

    I don't want to hear an opinion, what evidence, what scientific data supports your idea that evolution in any way is pro male?

    I heed the words of Hitchens, my atheist hero. Some won't like me saying that, but he is. Also I found the stangulation of female power in our religion toxic and unbearable. I found release from that in science and evidence. I do not recognise the sexist element you have mentioned.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE8LHL3HW5c

    Compare that to your subscribed world view.....

    "Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord."

    "the head of the woman [is] the man"

    "And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart [is] snares and nets, [and] her hands [as] bands"

    "How then can man be justified with God? or , how can he be clean [that is] born of a woman?"

    "But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days. "

    " ...discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed"

    I hope you don't hve daughters ....and I think we will leave it there hey Village Girl, I did say no trolling and hijacking. If you are sincere in an interest stay, I mean it please do. If you want to close your eyes, put fingers in your ears and preach loudly from a scroll, please make your own thread....

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Lewis Black - "Creationism" :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PDZTveY4uQ

    Lewis Black, again, on Evolution :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcJvkAdydnQ

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