Discussion with some elders

by GoUnion 41 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Oubliette

  Welcome!

  GU: When I told my wife that I read CoC she told me she felt like she needed to tell the elders

  You might try getting your wife to think about this, "Why does she feel the need to tell the elders about your personal thoughts and private discussions? What does this mean about your relationship? What does this say about the religion?"

  That being said, tread lightly and proceed cautiously.

  GU: the general vibe I got from our discussion was my thoughts and disagreemets are fine, but influencing my wife and others would cross a line.

  So THEY can influence your wife, but YOU cannot!

  Few things shout, "Cult!" as loudly as behavior like this.

  The only thing more ridiculous than the notion that anyone thinks they have the right to tell another adult WHO they can and cannot talk to and WHAT they can and cannot discuss is that anyone goes along with it.
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  ABibleStudent

  Welcome GoUnion, Do what you got to do to keep yourself sane and your wife happy. Keep on venting on JWN, so that you do not "Cross the Line" and vent your real feelings to your wife until she can critically think for herself. Be patient and compassionate with your wife and only ask her simple questions and encourage her to do independent research to find answers. Please read the thread exJW Psychology 102--How to Ask a Question When Questions Aren't Allowed by Billy the Ex-Bethelite so that you can ask stealth questions to JWs.

  Even though the two elders, who you talked with, sounded reasonable, it is best that you keep your real feelings to yourself and only ask simple questions with a tone of voice that indicates you are asking for their help. It is also possible that the two elders may have doubts also, but they will probably follow the WTBTS's doctrines instead of protecting you.

  You should read books by cult-exit counselors to help you heal, help your wife to critically think for herself, and to better communicate with JW family and friends. I would recommend reading Steve Hassan's books (i.e., "Combatting Cult Mind Control", "Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves", and (his latest book) "Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs"), visiting his website www.freedomofmind.com, and watching his FREE videos on his website. I would recommend watching Steve Hassan's How Big is the Phenomenon of Undue Influence? (2:01) and Strategic Interactive Approach explained 2003 (1:23:23).

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert
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  Dismissing servant

  GoUnion, don't be that naive. The reason that they are listening to you is to get you into a JC. It's just a matterof time before you will be DF'ed. Try just to keep your mouth shut when socializing with elders.
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  Designer Stubble

  When I exited, I was also able to have open discussion with the elders and even read a part directly from CoC for them. It was this quote:

  "I did not doubt or question that God would give his guidance to these men if it was sincerely sought (I felt that some of the decisions made, particularly in earlier years, had been good decisions, compassionate decisions), but I certainly did not think it was automatic; It was always conditional, contingent on certain factors. So my included the statement that I believed such guidance always was governed by the extent to which God's Word was adhered to; that to that extent God grants his guidance or withdraws it. (I think that that is true for any individual or any collective group of people, whoever they are)." They still did think that God only used one organization - theirs...but the discussion was surprisingly open. It can happen (this is in the Netherlands).
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  GoUnion

  just a quick reply to those who are concerned about a possible jc or disfellowshipping, that is a realistic possibility that I have considered but I have very little interactions with most Jws right now, it is something I am not afraid of. I would find it much more satisfying to confront the issues we all face and contemplate with an open mind and an honest outlook at all times. If that means I am asked to explain my thinking to 2 elders or 3 I will for the sake of discussion. a jc has no real effect on my life.

  oubliette thank you for your perspective, I won't say I agree 100% yet, but I will contemplate your post and hopefully I can give a more detailed reply later.
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  Oubliette

  GoUnion: ... hopefully I can give a more detailed reply later.

  I look forward to that!
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  ruderedhead

  You know the elders in your cogregation. Maybe you just have some decent fellows who won't rock the boat for you if you don't make waves? I know there are some good guys out there.
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  fulltimestudent

  my line of reasoning to them was I can think for myself

  For me, this is the third* big issue with both the JW cult and more generally, all of cultic (using the word in its correct sense) Christianity.

  I am willing to concede that Freddy Franz and possibility some of his mates, may know a lot more about the Bible than I do.

  But that does not equate to evidence, that only members of the GB have the magic power to consider what is truth and what is not. Yet that is their theological position, that somehow upon appointment to the GB, they become magically imbued with an ability to decide what is truth and what is not. However, their persistent need to update with 'new light' is evidence that on a previous occasion, the GB membership did not correctly discern truth.

  This problem has existed since the very origins of the Christian cult. We are asked to believe that the speeches and conversations of Jesus could be recalled verbatim many years later as a need arose for a written record. It is clearly an issue again, when centuries later, a meeting of elders (Bishops) at Nicea, could decide which of those writings had been written under the claimed guidance of the Yahweh/Jesus combo divinity. If you dissented you could be driven out of the cult.

  *My No 1 beef with the JW Organisation is their refusal to let dissenters leave with dignity. Their refusal to permit that is made worse by their persistent pattern of 'hounding' people out. Associated with that is my No 2 beef witch is their claimed right to interfere with family relationships.
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  will-be-apostate

  Hi GoUnion. Sounds like you are on the way out :) Best of luck for you.

  I need to disagree with some of you, guys. I know a lot of elders who have liberal way of thinking about many things. This doesn't mean they are not ignorant and brainwashed in 80% of the time. The elders from my cong are aware of the fact that I'm reading apostate stuff and that I'm not afraid of sharing these things with others, yet they don't do anything. The last time they wanted to come to visit me I told them it had no use as I don't base my decisions on their shepherding. I beleive it's a teritorial thing.
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  LisaRose

  It sounds like you are in a very good situation, your wife and the elders are willing to tolerate you at least checking out differing viewpoints. This may or may not last, but at least for now you have some breathing room. Be careful though, that could change if you start to move further away from JW teachings. Do be careful what you say, not every truth needs to be spoken, especially as your wife has shown she will inform the elders if she thinks you are straying.

  Good luck, and keep researching.