The Protect the Children Sham

by HildaBingen 123 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

jerome

Cassi
In another thread I just told you that i've been following hildas post and she displays the usual pattern of nonresponsive replys or utter ignorance about what shes actually talking about.
Now further up in this thread shes saying that the GB never prophesized.
Appaently she dosent know about the issues and isnt willing to keep her mouth shut untill she gets her facts straight.
There aint no need to keep running her down looking for an educated responce because all she seems to be doing is defending WT image and bashing apostates.
jerome
Dutchie

Hilda, I mean this in the kindest, gentlest way. You need to get a hold of yourself. You are starting to rant and rave and you are making absolutely no sense. I am not criticising you. I realize that we all have points to make and we are anxious to make them. But your sproutings are beginning to be irrational and I am concerned for you.
Please regroup and come again when you're feeling better. We all need a break every now and then.
Sincerely, Dutchie
HildaBingen

:I honestly can't believe some of the stuff you as a purported "Christian" with supposed "morals" are saying. You carn't possibly be a Dub (you do know what that is, don't you? That's a name I have for really bloody-minded Jehovahs Witnesses on this site), because you would long since have realized that chatting on this board threatens your chances of eternal life in a paradise, except minus the seven virgins that Taliban suicide bombers are promised by Osama.:
What do you have trouble believing, dear? That I find today's pedo culture supported by most people on this board to be disgusting. Or that I find men salivating over teens to be disgusting. Take your pick, sweetie.
:Satan has never made the governing body prophesy falsely because the governing body has never propheside before. So they cannot prophesy falsely.
This statement alone should be enough to dash the infintismal (SP?) amount of credibility you have here against some very high rocks. Damn, but you have truly proved yourself for what you are. You haven't been to Quotes' site yet, have you? I doubt you'll ever go there, even though I can see nothing wrong with reading unmodified Watchtower literature.:
The WT has never prophesied before in the sense of foretelling the future. Of course they have been prophets in a broad way that all Christians are prophets. The pope (one year) even quoted Moses who said I would that they all be prophets. All Christians are prophets or should be, hon. But the wt is not a foretelling kinda prophet.
:Haha, a Society that only allows you read it's new literature. LOL. History is written by the winners, eh Hilda? Did you know that the Society changes it's literature when it republishes it to change doctrinal errors in the Watchtower publications? If that isn't hard evidence, then I don't know what is.:
What is wrong with correcting mistakes, dear? Other peeps have done it. Why not us?
AlanF

Hildabingen a.k.a. Watchtower Legal Dept. Troll say:
: The same people who will act like they want to "protect the children" against the WT support a pedo culture everyday of their lives, especially men do this.
Really. Which people? Name some names, troll.
: Some guys who talk about how wrong it is for an elder to molest a teen--and it is wrong--were some of the very ones salivating at Britney Spears video that she made as a teen in a Catholic school outfit.
Yeah, the ubiquitous Watchtower "some". Some do this and some do that. But some are never identified.
: Some of these same perverts salivate over Charlotte Church. How sick! Buncha hypocrites.
How about WTS officials who have trouble controlling their impulses when five-year-old girls get on their laps? You don't seem to have a problem with that.
As for Britney Spears and Charlotte Church and other attractive women who receive a lot of media attention, they're certainly being exploited by some of the standards of Western culture. But they're not being abused. Furthermore, when these young women were 16, they were for all practical purposes adults because of their exposure to the adult world of entertainment. What they do is voluntary, with the approval of their guardians and of lawmakers. This is a far cry from the innocent little girls and boys who have become the prey of certain JWs. Why don't you protest about these, and about the many coverups of their molestation that occur? Because you're not on this board to discuss, but to create confusion and dissension if possible.
: Where is the evidence that JW victims have been punished FOR being victims. Do you have any hard evidence?
Best believe it. The Erica Rodriguez case in Washington is an example. So is the Berry case in New Hampshire. So are plenty of other cases that have not yet been filed. And there will be much evidence presented via the media in the coming year. The silentlambs website has more than a thousand stories of abuse. How much do you think that will be multiplied after Dateline airs?
: And as far as the world goes, I would rather please God anyday than this satanic world.
Yes. By advocating the protection of child molesters within your organization and beating up on whistleblowers.
: Why observe holidays or take blood? One practice is clearly pagan and the other could be risky.
So? Lots of things are pagan and you think nothing of observing them. JWs normally observe wedding anniversaries, wear wedding rings, etc., and think nothing of the pagan roots of these things. Today, plenty of people don't think of "pagan holidays" as religious events, any more than they think of putting on a wedding ring as observing a pagan rite.
As for blood, what's riskier? Bleeding out profusely on the operating room floor, or taking a 1-in-100,000 chance of getting a blood-borne disease?
Hypocrite! You think to confuse issues with these irrelevancies.
: How you gonna feel if your kid gets a disease from blood?
How you gonna feel if your kid dies from lack of blood?
AlanF
amac

Hilda -
I don't mean to take this thread off topic, but since you mentioned this...
One practice is clearly pagan and the other could be risky.
If the blood issue is simply risky and there is only a chance it is offensive to God, then shouldn't it be a matter of conscience and not a disfellowshipping offence?
AlanF -
This business of dismissing critics merely because you claim they have an "agenda" is patently ridiculous.
I disagree with this. Not that I am arguing that everyone on this list has an agenda, I'm sure some do and some don't. But to illustrate how someone might have an agenda that could taint their criticism I'll use the following illustration.
Let's say a man is fired from a company because of a difference in work ideas. He is very mad at the company because he disagrees with the way they do things and thinks he shouldn't have been fired, but instead listened to and his suggestions implemented. So immediately after being fired, he starts telling everyone he knows, colleauges, customers, friends, etc, how this company doesn't know what they are doing and doing everything wrong. From that day on, everytime that old company hits the news or is talked about, how do you think this man will respond? Even if it is a topic completely unrelated to his initial disagreement, because of his track record, how do you think he would respond? If you knew all of this history about this man, would you not take everything he says with a grain of salt?
That is what I think of when someone worries about a critic having an agenda. There's two sides to everything, and if someone is disposed to one side of the argument every single time, it makes others wonder, even more so, what the other side of the story is.
Your thoughts are welcome.
bchapp

What is wrong with correcting mistakes, dear? Other peeps have done it. Why not us?
How if WTS teachings are truly inspired from God, can there even be mistakes? The truth is the truth, it shouldn't need "correcting"
"If the truth hurts most of us so badly that we don't want it told,
it hurts even more grievously those who dare to tell it." (Judge Ben Lindsey, 1869-1943)
HildaBingen

Dear Mr F:
:Hildabingen a.k.a. Watchtower Legal Dept. Troll say::
My are not we the paranoid kind?
: The same people who will act like they want to "protect the children" against the WT support a pedo culture everyday of their lives, especially men do this.
Really. Which people? Name some names, troll.:
I am talking about people on this board, the people who gawked at the Brit video and there are a bunch or the men who gawk at Charlotte Church. If there was not a market for such perverts, the videos would not be shown all over the tv. Are you that dense?
: Some guys who talk about how wrong it is for an elder to molest a teen--and it is wrong--were some of the very ones salivating at Britney Spears video that she made as a teen in a Catholic school outfit.
Yeah, the ubiquitous Watchtower "some". Some do this and some[/i] do that. But some[/i] are never identified.:
Let us take a poll on this list, shall we, because that is the some to which I am talking about. I am 100% certain there are some on this board who criticize the wt while thinking it is so cool to watch a tennager prance around in a school uniform. Are you that dense?
: Some of these same perverts salivate over Charlotte Church. How sick! Buncha hypocrites.
How about WTS officials who have trouble controlling their impulses when five-year-old girls get on their laps? You don't seem to have a problem with that.:
I have a big problem with that.
:As for Britney Spears and Charlotte Church and other attractive women who receive a lot of media attention, they're certainly being exploited by some of the standards of Western culture. But they're not being abused.:
Oh really? They are certainly being objectified, being unnecessarily elevated and they are the objects of sex desire for many pervs. That is abuse, sir.
:Furthermore, when these young women were 16, they were for all practical purposes adults because of their exposure to the adult world of entertainment.:
Give me a break. Now you try to redefine adult with such Clintonian terms as, for all intents and purposes, blah blah. Give me a break. The girls at 16 are teens!
:What they do is voluntary, with the approval of their guardians and of lawmakers. This is a far cry from the innocent little girls and boys who have become the prey of certain JWs.:
So you have no problem if jw teens choose to initiate sex with adults? You are a perv.
: Where is the evidence that JW victims have been punished FOR being victims. Do you have any hard evidence?
Best believe it. The Erica Rodriguez case in Washington is an example. So is the Berry case in New Hampshire. So are plenty of other cases that have not yet been filed. And there will be much evidence presented via the media in the coming year. The silentlambs website has more than a thousand stories of abuse. How much do you think that will be multiplied after Dateline airs?:
So there are supposedly two cases of persons being persecuted FOR being victims of molestation in the Wt and a bunch of other anonymous cases? Right. Are you sure that is why these victims are being troubled by the wt, as you think?
:Yes. By advocating the protection of child molesters within your organization and beating up on whistleblowers.:
I do not advocate any of the things you mention. You must have me cornfused with somebody else.
:So? Lots of things are pagan and you think nothing of observing them. JWs normally observe wedding anniversaries, wear wedding rings, etc., and think nothing of the pagan roots of these things. Today, plenty of people don't think of "pagan holidays" as religious events, any more than they think of putting on a wedding ring as observing a pagan rite.:
You do not even know me. How can you say what I observe? Jws normally wear rings. Does that mean that this mystic does? Jws observe anniversaries, does that mean that I do? No it do not. And I could care less what other people think. I answer to God alone, baby dear!
:As for blood, what's riskier? Bleeding out profusely on the operating room floor, or taking a 1-in-100,000 chance of getting a blood-borne disease?:
Better to die for a good cause than for a bad one. Why preserve this life only to miss the next?
:How you gonna feel if your kid dies from lack of blood?:
Obviously, sad.
HildaBingen

amac:
:If the blood issue is simply risky and there is only a chance it is offensive to God, then shouldn't it be a matter of conscience and not a disfellowshipping offence?:
You may be right, amac.
Blessings.
AlanF

HildaTroll say:
: Satan has never made the governing body prophesy falsely because the governing body has never propheside before. So they cannot prophesy falsely.
The Governing Body (in the guise of Russell, Rutherford, Knorr & Franz, and the post-1971 Keystone Kops) has certainly prophesied. They might not have claimed that their prophecies originated with themselves, but they certainly claimed that their prophecies originated with God. They all claimed or claim to be God's exclusive spokesmen to mankind. They all claimed or claim that their teachings should be obeyed as if God himself were speaking. No exceptions, for to disobey is to "go against the arrangement of God". Thus, when they made predictions based on anything at all, they made them in God's name. That is one definition of prophesying. That is exactly what the Old Testament prophets did, with the possible exception that they claimed that God spoke directly to them in rather obvious ways. But Rutherford explicitly claimed that angels gave him lots of information that he merely passed on to the JW community. And the others have always claimed that God "directs" them, not just by their passively reading the Bible, but in an unspecified but clearly active way. Thus, the Governing Body today claims inspiration, although they don't use the word "inspiration". They use the word "direction", but the way they use it, it's a distinction without a difference.
Another definition of prophesying comes straight from Watchtower literature. A prophet, according to the Insight book, is one who claims to speak in God's name. That claim can be true or false, and so a prophet can be either true or false. Because the Watchtower Society's leaders have taught many false things while claiming to speak in God's name, they are -- by their own definition -- false prophets.
Either way you look at it, JW leaders are false prophets.
AlanF
HildaBingen

:How if WTS teachings are truly inspired from God, can there even be mistakes? The truth is the truth, it shouldn't need "correcting":
Wt teachings are not "inspired" by God, okay? And as far as your statement about truth is concerned, I think you are cornfusing a ontotheological problem with an epistemological one. Another way to say dat is the truth does not change but our understanding of it can and does.

The Protect the Children Sham

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