JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles

by DakotaRed 62 Replies latest jw friends

HildaBingen

:Well, shiver me timbers. This is interesting news. So, it is your contention that the elders should indeed report suspected pedophilia to the police (even in a non-reporting state)? I am just wondering because in your post above, you did say:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the state required such action I would agree for then superior authoritties would come into play. Otherwise, I say let the elders handle matters according to Paul and the rest of Bible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The bold is mine. Anyway, have you changed your mind, or am I misunderstanding you? Please explain.:
I have not really changed my mind. My comment was intended to show that I might be willing to change my mind if I could see how the suggested action you are prescribing harmonized with God's bible. That is my concern. The will of God. Only God's will can benefit all concerned, inclcuing the children. Ignoring his will harms everyone concerned.
:Than that settles it. Like many other people of your religion, you 'have faith that the elders are qualified to do what they are appointed to do.' So that explains why this issue exists. Naive people like you throw blind-faith at folks who take advantage of the situation right behind your back. Wonderful. Now we see the original problem of the catholic church, and why they were able to keep a lid on things for as long as they have. And in regards to your notion of God making changes and others trying to force his hand, it sounds to me like your God is a bit more on the human side than many others I know of.:
I am not a fan of blind faith. But this mystic does believe that God's bible is true. We humans may sometimes misunderstand it and need adjustment. But God is true, though every man be found a liar.
: Do you likie my logomachy as well, whoever you are? BTW, I never said I was Greg [Stafford?]. Hilda is an ol' lady mystic.
No, I said that you were simply 'Greg'. It is also my current opinion, subject to change at a moment's notice. (New Light, if you will):
Good one. But you did not answer my question. How do you likie my logomachy?
ThatSucks

::: Show us where anyone has been kicked out of jws for being a "child advocate" or a victim of child abuse.
:: Impossible. Since the elders probably won't talk about it, and since anyone who knew about it was probably pressured into silence, very few people who would be considered as credible by you (i.e. non-apostates) would even be aware of the situation:
: Just like I thought. Just a bunch of assertions with nary a bit of evidence to back it up.
And, true to form, this is ultimately the best way to keep bad publicity from reaching the public. I guess all of the other folks who have talked about their experiences on this board and others are immediately and collectively lying about their individual experiences. Besides, you seem fine asserting with lack of evidence, so what is your problem?
::: It might have happened in rare cases. But this ol' lady can almosty guarantee you that the wrong was in time righted.
:: How? By silencing the victim and 'reproving' the perpatrator? What did you do, take the microphone away. Oh man, that's terrible!:
: Read what I wrote again. I was talking about if a victim was DF, the wrong being righted. Do you get it now?
Yes Greg, I get it now. Thank you for clarifying that.
::: If Bowen is kicked out--it will not be for his child advocacy, we can assure you. You are just a biggot.
:: No kidding. You can't kick him out for child advocacy, it would be a suicidal way of wording things. You are just worring about him possibly 'causing divisions', you obviously don't give a damn about why he could be 'causing divisions'. That would be acknowledging what is obvious to 60% of humanity.
: Anyone who has read Bowen website or posts here knows why he MIGHT be kicked out. That is obvious to any sane or rational or truly mystical person.
Yes, and once again, you don't give a damn about why he started what he started. When he first started this, it was because he couldn't get results under "theocratic order" from what I understand. Now 'you' want rid of him because he is crying foul. THAT is what is obvious to any sane or ratinal or truly TRUTHFUL person.
ThatSucks

Hello again 'Hilda':
:: Well, shiver me timbers. This is interesting news. So, it is your contention that the elders should indeed report suspected pedophilia to the police (even in a non-reporting state)? I am just wondering because in your post above, you did say:
-QUOTE--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the state required such action I would agree for then superior authoritties would come into play. Otherwise, I say let the elders handle matters according to Paul and the rest of Bible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The bold is mine. Anyway, have you changed your mind, or am I misunderstanding you? Please explain.
: I have not really changed my mind. My comment was intended to show that I might be willing to change my mind if I could see how the suggested action you are prescribing harmonized with God's bible. That is my concern. The will of God. Only God's will can benefit all concerned, inclcuing the children. Ignoring his will harms everyone concerned.
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Ok. God's will. Right. okay. Sure Greg. *sniff*.
:: Than that settles it. Like many other people of your religion, you 'have faith that the elders are qualified to do what they are appointed to do.' So that explains why this issue exists. Naive people like you throw blind-faith at folks who take advantage of the situation right behind your back. Wonderful. Now we see the original problem of the catholic church, and why they were able to keep a lid on things for as long as they have. And in regards to your notion of God making changes and others trying to force his hand, it sounds to me like your God is a bit more on the human side than many others I know of.
: I am not a fan of blind faith. But this mystic does believe that God's bible is true. We humans may sometimes misunderstand it and need adjustment. But God is true, though every man be found a liar.
Well, I don't know about every man being found a liar, but I know of at least one.
::: Do you likie my logomachy as well, whoever you are? BTW, I never said I was Greg [Stafford?]. Hilda is an ol' lady mystic.
:: No, I said that you were simply 'Greg'. It is also my current opinion, subject to change at a moment's notice. (New Light, if you will):
: Good one. But you did not answer my question. How do you likie my logomachy?
Oh, sorry I missed that. I don't consider you being engaged in a logomachy though, it's more like bad comedy. But, you are well spoken.
HildaBingen

Dear That:
:Yes, and once again, you don't give a damn about why he started what he started. When he first started this, it was because he couldn't get results under "theocratic order" from what I understand. Now 'you' want rid of him because he is crying foul. THAT is what is obvious to any sane or ratinal or truly TRUTHFUL person.:
Your words, "from what I understand" are interesting. They imply that you are going on second-hand information and you don't really know what transpired behind closed doors in Bowen's case. Really, how could you? Please do me a favor. Apply Proverbs 18:13 in your life. Do not reply to a matter before you hear it out, dear. No one wants to get rid of Bowen. He can still repent and turn around, dear. Attitude is everything.
And I am not saying that everyone on Bowen's site is lying. But if the story of those complaining is to be believed, then one person must come forth and admit that they were DF FOR being a victim. I just do not see it that way.
l'kiddush hashem.
dungbeetle

For years, Watchtower has told the publishers AND the world (going back to 1960) that elders are trained for the work that Watchtower assigns to them. (including determing when a crime has been committed and what to do with the perpetrator)
Well, the entire elder's school audio is up on Kent's site. This was LON AFTER the pedophile issue has been public and Watchtower has had plenty of time to formulate training.
Proving Watchtower is lying about the so-called training. there's no TRAINING in that school.
Any accusations of molestation should go to the AUTHORITIES FIRST, many of whom have years of training and experience; at least more than JW window-washers. THEN THE WATCHTOWER IF AT ALL.
Elders don't have to deal with reporting or with clergy-penitent confidentiality issues; and Jehovah's Witnesses don't come into the matter at all. And victims have access to treatment and support.
Pedophiles have access to prison. WHERE THEY BELONG.
WHAT IS SO HARD ABOUT THIS TO UNDERSTAND?
UADNA-US (Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America-United States)
HildaBingen

: I am not a fan of blind faith. But this mystic does believe that God's bible is true. We humans may sometimes misunderstand it and need adjustment. But God is true, though every man be found a liar.
Well, I don't know about every man being found a liar, but I know of at least one.:
Do you mean Bowen?
: Good one. But you did not answer my question. How do you likie my logomachy?
Oh, sorry I missed that. I don't consider you being engaged in a logomachy though, it's more like bad comedy. But, you are well spoken.:
Thank you, that. You are SOOOooooo sweet for an opposer. I try to avoid bad comedy though I do sometimes slip into logomachy. That is when I am not speaking in amphibolous and mystical tones, dear.
ThatSucks

Hello again 'Hilda':
:: Yes, and once again, you don't give a damn about why he started what he started. When he first started this, it was because he couldn't get results under "theocratic order" from what I understand. Now 'you' want rid of him because he is crying foul. THAT is what is obvious to any sane or ratinal or truly TRUTHFUL person.
: Your words, "from what I understand" are interesting. They imply that you are going on second-hand information and you don't really know what transpired behind closed doors in Bowen's case. Really, how could you? Please do me a favor. Apply Proverbs 18:13 in your life. Do not reply to a matter before you hear it out, dear. No one wants to get rid of Bowen. He can still repent and turn around, dear. Attitude is everything.
First of all, I say 'I understand' as an expression. I have been keeping up with this since 1+ years ago when it first started. Second, why don't you apply Proverbs 18:13 and do the same, unless you know what is going on behind those 'closed doors'. Besides, how would Bowen 'repent' and turn around anyway? Wouldn't that be by dropping this whole thing and pretending it never happened? How does ignoring a matter help the victims? How does ignoring a matter reestablish their safety and security? It doesn't. It creates a haven for those without a conscience. It traumatizes the victims, keeping them cowering in fear that it MIGHT HAPPEN AGAIN, because NOBODY DID ANYTHING ABOUT IT. Yes, I agree that attitude is everything. Unfortunately, yours needs adjusting.
: And I am not saying that everyone on Bowen's site is lying. But if the story of those complaining is to be believed, then one person must come forth and admit that they were DF FOR being a victim. I just do not see it that way.
Unfortunately, you will NEVER see that, and you and I BOTH know why. Here is a hint, it's called 'divisions' and 'slander'.
It was fun talking to you Greg, but it's time to eat some dinner.
Good Day.
ThatSucks

BTW, Hilda, When I was referring to a liar, I was definately not referring to Bowen. Try another guess.
HildaBingen

:First of all, I say 'I understand' as an expression. I have been keeping up with this since 1+ years ago when it first started.:
Then you have a lot to learn about this matter, right?
:Second, why don't you apply Proverbs 18:13 and do the same, unless you know what is going on behind those 'closed doors'. Besides, how would Bowen 'repent' and turn around anyway? Wouldn't that be by dropping this whole thing and pretending it never happened?:
I have not come to a firm decision yet regarding this matter. I think that Bowen's method leaves a lot to be desired and that his motives are questionable. But I have not judged him either way yet.
Bowen can repent by ceasing to post messages like the ones he has sent to this board. He can also take down his website. It does not mean he has to stop working for change, as he sees the need for it, however. We love our brother and want to see him serve Yahweh and Christ, getting life eternal.
:How does ignoring a matter help the victims? How does ignoring a matter reestablish their safety and security? It doesn't.:
Did the mystic say the matter should be ignored? I don't think so, hon.
: And I am not saying that everyone on Bowen's site is lying. But if the story of those complaining is to be believed, then one person must come forth and admit that they were DF FOR being a victim. I just do not see it that way.
Unfortunately, you will NEVER see that, and you and I BOTH know why. Here is a hint, it's called 'divisions' and 'slander'.:
I will not see it like that until there is empirical proof to see it like that.
:It was fun talking to you Greg, but it's time to eat some dinner.
Good Day.:
Have a nice day, that.
We must meet again under less auspicious circumstances, dear.
DakotaRed

Your statements about the jw's site and jws in general are misrepresentative. Show us where anyone has been kicked out of jws for being a "child advocate" or a victim of child abuse.
Does the name "PANDELA" ring a bell?
It might have happened in rare cases.
Which way is it, Hilda?
But this ol' lady can almosty guarantee you that the wrong was in time righted.
Well, this greay haired old grandpa can assure you that the elders within the Watchtower have committed many wrongs and not one damn thing was ever done about it! When letters were written to the Society about ill behaving elders, it wasn't even looked into. How do I know? It happened to me for over 6 years until I got tired of it and Disassociated myself!
If Bowen is kicked out--it will not be for his child advocacy, we can assure you.
WE? Are you serving on a Judical Committee now? Ask yourself, Bill eresigned as Presiding Overseer well over a year ago and has never been brought up on any charges, never Disassociated himself, nothing. Now, as the Dateline program nears airing, Brooklyn mandates his being brought before a Judical Committee. Not the local elders, mind you, but Brooklyn.
Do yourself a favor and do a little more homework.
You are just a biggot
My, but you sure do seem to like this word lately. If standing up for those treated unfairly and vicitimized by their religious leaders makes me a bigot, then a bigot I am, I suppose. Regardless, though, you are still a f***king idiot!
Have a nice evening.
If God's Spirit is filling a Kingdom Hall, how is it that Satan can manuever the ones within that Kingdom Hall at the same time?

JW Justifies Societies Pedophiles

Share this