by DakotaRed 62 Replies latest jw friends
Well this is new light isn't it!
Christians are taught to hate the sin and love the sinner.
Would you like the WT quote particulars about how sometimes the sin is too bad, or has happened too many times, then you must hate the person. If anyone remembers the adjectives used in this paragraph, I am sure Hilda would love to hear how they teach to love the sinner.
Hilda (Greg) says:
I know it is hard for those who think according to the sinful flesh to see this point.Well, since all of us use are fleshful brains with corresponding synapse, nerves, and other related structures, than I would say about the only damn way you could think is according to the 'sinful flesh', because the 'sinful flesh' originates the 'sinful thought'.
If a person repents of any sin, she should be forgiven.Jeez, if that's doesn't sound like catholicism. Go out and rape/molest/steal, and BEG for forgiveness, because you can.
Should we then tell the whole neighborhood that she is a pedo, after she repents?No, we should tell the whole neighborhood that she was a pedo, and that she at one time 'peedo'd'.
If a person repents of any sin, she should be forgiven. Should we then tell the whole neighborhood that she is a pedo, after she repents?
Yep, we sure should. You see, in cases of other sins, fornication/adultery etc, there usually are not helpless, innocent victims within reach of the perpetrator of the sin. Am I to assume then that "God's law" you speak of would have us put children at risk just because a molestor is supposedly repentant? Can you read hearts Hilda? Are you aware of the statistics regarding the lack of rehabilitation among child molestors and pedophiles? Sorry, the risk to children is too great.
And you're missing the point when you say "a few cases" of molestation, or haven't you bothered to read Silentlambs website? Have you bothered to read so many of the personal experiences that are posted here and that reveal somewhat the extent of this problem in the WTS?
Oh, and last I heard, other churches haven't been denouncing the JW org and holding themselves up as better than them because of their singular communication with Jehovah and stance as the "only true organization". Now the WTS is finally getting called on it...bout time.
Dana
:Well this is new light isn't it!
Christians are taught to hate the sin and love the sinner.Would you like the WT quote particulars about how sometimes the sin is too bad, or has happened too many times, then you must hate the person. If anyone remembers the adjectives used in this paragraph, I am sure Hilda would love to hear how they teach to love the sinner.:
The Bible tells me to hate those who hate Yahweh. I also read that there is a sin that incurs death and one that does not. My comments had reference to the latter type of sin and not to the former. You probably know about the Catholic distinction that is made between cardinal sin and venial sin. I think kinda like that. Besides Jude 23--"save them by snatching them out of the fire. But continue showing mercy to others, doing so with fear, while you hate even the inner garment that has been stained by the flesh."
I love this crap!!! JWs come to about JWs site, and take issue at the fact that the topics talk about JW's!!!
Hilda, if you want to talk about the pedophile problem in the Catholic Church, go to a Catholic site.
The news and media are NOT fixated on JWs, but rather on pedophilia in churches-NO ONE is exempt. It is disgusting, and needs to brought out NO MATTER what religion it is.
I dare say, the Catholic Chuch has gotten 1000x more press than JWs on this issue in the past few months. So, If a murderer was preying on innocent children, you'd want him/her found and identified, and brought to justice. DEMAND the same of the JW leadership.
Numbers aren't important. It is a prolific enough problm in many denominations, and SOMETHING must be done to stop it.
We need a national law to require ALL churches to report allegations to authorities, just as teachers, counselors, etc. are required to do.
KUDOs to the Catholic Church. WHY? Because, they are moving forward w/o such a law. They are coming forth, and being honest with the R&F.
JW's, the self-proclaimed "moral high ground" of religions SHOULD NOT need a law to report these allegations. One would think that the higher standard they claim would move them to report alleged crimes in EVERY state, not just the ones which require it.
F*CK "ecclesial privelege".
Boozy
:Well, since all of us use are fleshful brains with corresponding synapse, nerves, and other related structures, than I would say about the only damn way you could think is according to the 'sinful flesh', because the 'sinful flesh' originates the 'sinful thought'.:
You obviously have no idea what I am talking about. I am sorry that I gave you credit for having at least some knowledge of Pauline mystical language. Brother Paul obviously uses the word "flesh" in a different way than you talk about. Sorry for imputing such knowledge to you.
:Jeez, if that's doesn't sound like catholicism. Go out and rape/molest/steal, and BEG for forgiveness, because you can.:
You got it all wrong again. Repentance is only of value when it is genuine and rendered in godly fear.
:quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Should we then tell the whole neighborhood that she is a pedo, after she repents?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, we should tell the whole neighborhood that she was a pedo, and that she at one time 'peedo'd'.:
If the state required such action I would agree for then superior authoritties would come into play. Otherwise, I say let the elders handle matters according to Paul and the rest of Bible.
:And you're missing the point when you say "a few cases" of molestation, or haven't you bothered to read Silentlambs website? Have you bothered to read so many of the personal experiences that are posted here and that reveal somewhat the extent of this problem in the WTS?:
I have read some of the silent website. But you cannot believe everything you read. I also say that Bowen's figures are probably wrong. He does not even know. Let say that there are 23,000 in US alone. That is still few in comparison to faithful jws. Not to minimize matters doh.
:Oh, and last I heard, other churches haven't been denouncing the JW org and holding themselves up as better than them because of their singular communication with Jehovah and stance as the "only true organization". Now the WTS is finally getting called on it...bout time.:
Have you had your head in the sand? Other churches persecute jws all the time. That is why Greg Stafford wrote his book JWD.
I see it real simple, 'cause I'm a simple man.
If an Organization claims to be led by Holy Spirit from the Almighty GOD this Organization would have no pedophilia, whatsoever!!!
None. Not 0.1%
Or is Holy Spirit too weak? Or what? Its's GOD isn't it?
God''s people, and then rises the theory, is there a God, would have had 0 tolerence. Or it proves they are GOD's people and God Himself then is a pedophile.
Which is it.
My 2 pennies, if they're worth that, is: "Get the hell out from within the Watchtower Walls".
This Hector3000 has shown that he is a person who will defend the Watchtower no matter what. He doesn't answer issues that are presented to him, but throws up smokescreens of finger pointing and meaningless rhetoric while avoiding the direct issues that were raised. The pedophile article you cited is a perfect example. He never addresses the problem as it exists among JW's, but cites scores of cases of pedophilia in churches, as if that somehow excused it among JW's. But, since JW's make up only one one-thousandth of the population, I guess we could conclude that 999 cases out of a thousand should come from outside the JW's. If the JW's are responsible for more than one case in a thousand, then they are worse than other religions in that area.
You can enjoy more of Hector3000's rantings at: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=27244&site=3
This mindless Watchtower drone makes You Know look positively reasonable!
Tom
"Gentlemen, he said, I don't need your organization, I've shined your shoes, I've moved your mountains and marked your cards. But Eden is burning"
--Bob Dylan
The author of the linked article, like this Hildabingen WATCHTOWER TROLL, is a lying, fucking idiot. He knowingly uses absolutely classic false arguments. Of course, this will work on braindead rank & file JWs, but not on anyone with a brain functioning above the level of a gnat.
For example, the author's main argument is this: "... many think that this story is indigenous to JW's alone." In classic JW fashion the author fails to state who these "many" are, but just leaves it up to the reader to accept his false claim as truth, and as representative of the claims of critics of Jehovah's Witnesses generally. The fact is that anyone who thinks what the author claims is himself an idiot, because the issue of pedophilia has received plenty of media coverage. Because of this coverage, anyone with brainpower greater than a gnat's understands that pedophilia is an ill of society at large. The author is far from stupid in an intellectual sense, and one can see this by his ability to find and collate stories about pedophilia, but his moral failure is plainly evident in his deliberate misrepresentation of the community of critics of Jehovah's Witnesses. By his implication that all critics claim that only JWs have the pedophilia problem, he has misrepresented the issues that critics are really focusing on. In other words, the author's entire argument is a great big straw man.
Why do I talk about the author's implication about critics? Because he only deals with the tiny number of unspecified critics who might possibly be stupid enough to think that only JWs have a problem with pedophilia, and fails to deal with the facts presented by the great majority of critics who are perfectly well aware that every segment of society, religious or otherwise, suffers from this problem.
Moral idiots like our linked author try to convince others that critics of JWs are unaware of the evil that also exists in other religions. That is simply not so. Critics of JWs focus on JWs for a simple reason: they know JWs better than they know any other religion. They leave criticism of other religions to those who know them best. But because they have precious few good arguments against the charges brought by JW critics, JW apologists like our idiot author often invent strawmen that are easy to knock down.
This deliberate invention of straw men illustrates another major fault of Jehovah's Witnesses (and of course, related religions that like to cover over their embarassing stupidities): they have little respect for the truth. Rather, their focus is on keeping their organization's name free from blemish in the eyes of the public. They subscribe to the refrain: "my religion right or wrong". They have forgotten that they claim to worship the God of Truth.
This disrespect for truth is well illustrated by the lies that Watchtower spokesman J. R. Brown has been telling the media during the past couple of weeks. Those who have kept up with this board know very well what lies Brown has told, such as that "headquarters" knew nothing of who would appear on the upcoming NBC Dateline program until last Tuesday, and that the recent charges of "sin" on the part of four people who will appear on the program were brought only by elders acting on a local level. Brown implied that Watchtower headquarters is not coordinating the disfellowshipping efforts. Brown has committed a disfellowshipping offense by lying to the public. Will Watchtower bring charges of lying against him? Of course not, because as their prime spokesman, it is evident that he was instructed to lie by his superiors. Will JW apologists acknowledge that Brown lied? Of course not, because to do so would burst their bubble.
It is certain that many more JW apologists will appear on this board, and that many more apologists will write deceptive pieces in an attempt to prop up the moral failures of "God's organization."
AlanF
