by Space Madness 71 Replies latest jw friends
Really?
You should look again.
The topic of discussion is suicides. Read the sentence in the proper context.
Will you please provide the reference(s)
Recent suicide and religious statstics for indiviual countries is widely available on the internet. You can compare and contrast the countries on both list to test the hypothesis.
Space- so in these studies what are the specific triggers attributed to suicide among atheists.
If the atheists have lost a sense of the symbolic world then I guess they would feel more suicidal. But the symbolic world does not fully equate with religion/belief in God imo.
edit: out for the morning now
The topic of discussion is suicides. Read the sentence in the proper context.
Your causal interpretation is not exclusive.
In general people who believe in God are much happier than athiest and their belief in God gives them strenght through tough times, which is why they can live peacefully in third world countries while atheist are killing themselves despite living in much better conditions.
Populations living in the countries you've named, are not living "peacefully" - so, perhaps, their lower suicide rates are due to something other than their purported 'happiness' as believers in a god.
Maybe their belief in a god feeds apathy: they may believe themselves powerless to change their current condition, and so do nothing except... stew, and wait for a god to help them.
Maybe their belief in a god stirs them to fear of releasing themselves from the inescapable (see the point above) misery and inadequacy of their lives. They dare not find release/relief in suicide, less their god condemn their lingering consciousness to an even worse fate... eternally.
Conjectures of causal relationships aside, I would definitely say that poverty is worse for one's health, than is atheism.
SM-
Recent suicide and religious statstics for indiviual countries is widely available on the internet. You can compare and contrast the countries on both list to test the hypothesis.
Are you suggesting that Durkheim did not co-relate suicide and religious belief?
If I'm drawing the wrong conclusion, please provide a reference to the source where Durkheim compares suicide stats. and religious belief.
Your lecturers/tutors would expect that as a minimum, wouldn't they?
If its your own comparison, please show us your figures. And, as a good student, you should be analysing the sources that discuss what is known about possible other reasons for suicide in any one country.
Valkyrie:
Maybe their belief in a god feeds apathy: they may believe themselves powerless to change their current condition, and so do nothing except... stew, and wait for a god to help them.
We could describe that as fatalism. Doesn't prevent suicide as an act of murder, though in some religions. I wonder how that works out in Space Madness's hypothesis?
In the cases of terminal illness- how does religious belife or lack of affect end of life choices. Anecdotally I hear Christians clinging to life at the end stage (Heaven can wait). As an atheist now I would opt for not prolonging the inevitable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_on_suicide
Conservative Protestants (Evangelicals, Charismatics, Pentecostals, and other denominations) have often argued that because suicide involves self-murder, then anyone who commits it is sinning and is the same as if the person murdered another human being
Maybe the thought of dying and then going straight to hell puts a lot of Conservative Protestants off the idea. Maybe they have a hell now, heaven later philosophy... Must be lovely for them.
Another thing is... you're an atheist convert from theism. I'm guessing that you self-converted because atheists usually don't go round knocking on doors, so you've had nobody to talk through your ideas with. Why don't you try talking to people who've been athiests for some time - local humanist groups or Unitarian Universalists (some are atheists). It is possible to be spiritual without being a theist and it is possible to live a good life without God. You are bound to have a lot of negativity associated with having been duped into belief in god in the first place and now that the scales have fallen from your eyes so to speak, it's daunting - hence the anxiety and depression. I can relate to that because I've been there, done that... Epicurus was a big help for me... an ancient rationalist philospopher. http://epicurus.info/
The best way to get back at theists is to live a good live and enjoy what you have. It really p*sses them off. Go for it!
This thread seems rather a moot point. Do we believe (or not) because of the benefits such a belief brings, or because of the importance of believing the truth (as we see it)??
Space Madness, are you implying that you regret stopping believing in god? If so, what benefit does that have? Are you likely to believe in god again just to lower your risk of suicide?!
Believe what you believe, just make sure it is what you truly believe, THAT is most likely going to be the problem that creates suicides, any form of cognitive dissonance.
Personally I felt more suicidal when I was a witness, because I wasn't sure that I actually thought it was the truth, and was letting them shit on me and my kind from a great biblical height.
Space m is your conclusion;..believe in God and be happier? If so your research should include study into that specific subject.
Consider the consequences of God influenced hatred towards those with differing beliefs .
Do you have statistics on the cost to humanity?
Ranging from whole countries to family units to individuals.
Surely better to live a life based on love than statistics.
Best wishes to you.
