The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday (page 49)

THE GLADIATOR

When I left the Jehovah's Witnesses, I still believed that Jehovah existed but was not prepared to serve vengeful bully who threatened to destroy his creation and had demonstrated his ability to do so. I raged against his cool indifference to humanity's suffering and his failure to prevent acts of god.

The anger and frustration left me when I realized that the whole Daddy in the Sky idea was a hoax. Suddenly life on earth made sense. I accepted that the world is the way it is because it can be no other way.

Pain and suffering are a part of life, as is joy and happiness. Life is not fair; how could it possibly be, given the random nature of events beyond human control. I blame wicked men for their greed and selfishness. Natural disasters are par for the course on a planet that is suspended in space and whizzing round an aging sun.

No god or gods to blame and no devil or demons to blame. No need to rage in anger against a non-existent, invisible fantasy. No need to choke with anger at the Biblical accounts of the fictitious atrocities of the Hebrew desert god Jehovah. Just the peace of enjoying being alive on such a beautiful planet until my time is over. Peace is possible without a head-full of nonsense.

caliber

The fact remains he passively observed a tsunami on 26th Dec 2004 that killed a quarter of a million innocent men, women and children. ~~cofty

Are we on an equal bases with God so as to issue an ultimatum ? How can you be sure that you do indeed have an equal avantage

point with God or indeed that your moral compass is right in demanding action now ?

An ultimatum (Latin: the last one ) is a demand whose fulfillment is requested in a specified period of time and which is backed up by a threat to be followed through in case of noncompliance. An ultimatum is generally the final demand in a series of requests. As such, the time allotted is usually short, and the request is understood not to be open to further negotiation.

A women can say to her husband "you don't love me " and issue an ultimatum saying .. "unless you show me otherwise right now

I am outta here " Is our relationship with God to be viewed on an egual bases as say ...God and son ?

Does your self imposed deadline for God to act justify hostile and unflattering put downs and shocking insults to God ?

Are you aiming for shock value.. to jolt people back to your perceived reality ?

If you can question the intent or timing of God, is it not fair to also ask about your intent of asking the question (or statement in this case) above

(without starting another thread and dividing the issue into unrelated parts ? )

Why not accept from God what he has said without making us mere humans give answers for Him ?

"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Why is it a surprise to you that noone can answer your question (or statement ) , when you read the above verse ?

AlphaMan

Manna works well also. If god produced Manna to feed starving people once why is (He) not feeding and helping the 18,000 children who starve to death every single day.

God cannot get approval for Manna from the FDA.

THE GLADIATOR

Human life on earth would not exist were it not for this humble garden worm.

Human life on earth does exist without any help from an invisible sky daddy.

Let's keep it that way.

cofty

How can you be sure that ...your moral compass is right in demanding action now ? - Caliber

Caliber - If you are correct then there is no foundation for us to make moral judgements.

If permitting the unecessary deaths of a quarter of a million innocent men, women and children is actually a good loving and moral thing to do, then you and I no longer have the slightest clue what it means to be loving or moral. Our instincts cannot be trusted. It must be true that withholding help from somebody in peril is a virtue and interfering to prevent a violent death is a vice.

The tsunami created thousands of orphans and widows with no means of support. If you are right this must be god's will. Maybe by giving to charity I am working against god. He must have wanted hundreds of thousands more destitute humans or he would have quelled the storm. He didn't, therefore the misery that followed must be a blessing in some way we can't grasp, because of course we are so foolish.

Praise god for earthquakes and tsunamis and for all the anguish, grief and despair that comes in their wake. Oh the wisdom of god. He is so much higher than us that love is hate and good is bad and who are we to question it?

I don't buy it and neither do you.

Apognophos

If permitting the unecessary deaths of a quarter of a million innocent men, women and children is actually a good loving and moral thing to do, then you and I no longer have the slightest clue what it means to be loving or moral.

Well said. At the very least, if it were true that this was a good action in God's eyes, it would disprove the scripture about being created in God's image since we don't share his morality.

I suppose the counter to this would be, "Yes, but we're imperfect and don't have complete knowledge." But the nature of our imperfection, as an outcome to the Garden of Eden scenario, was certainly determined by God. Why did he let us end up in a state where, not only are we sinful and imperfect, but we can't even understand the actions of God? God has stumbled many of us into not wanting to worship him! And we know what Jesus said about ones who stumble others out of their faith.

THE GLADIATOR

If a god existed, he would have followed normal protocol and informed the authorities of the impending disaster. Then, at least those that heeded the warning would escape with their lives. He would no doubt win many converts and not look so heartless. We are talking about his own creation - the human race. Of course, once we accept that there is no god, it all makes sense.

humbled

Can we think beyond the pastor's admission that God did nothing to stop the death of 250,000 people?

It has been hard for me to stop squalling about natural phenomena and its impact on humans.

Here is a fact that could split fairly between Theo did or Theo did not do anything. Or---maybe it has nothing to do with this topic:

A ten-year-old tourist from Oxshoot, Surrey knew the signs for a tsnunami. A bunch of illiterate stone-age islanders knew the signs of a tsunami.

In the case of Tilly Smith (thanks to her good schoolteacher's lessons and her very loud mouth) her family and around 100 others lived through the disaster in Phuket, Thailand.

In the case of the islanders of the Andaman group, only the "primitives" survived(Jarawa, Onge, Sentinelese, Greater Andamanese)--The Nicobarese natives who had assimilated to western values ( and--perhaps notable--had become Christians), these died by the thousands--they had lost the stories of their fathers.

The earth cracks, the skies send rain and wind, Why don't we remember? Why don't we teach?

Why don't we remember and teach--not about God or about punishment--but about the earth we live on?

See the info on line: Tilly Smith

Islanders survive tsunami

caliber

Praise god for earthquakes and tsunamis and for all the anguish, grief and despair

I don't buy it and neither do you. ( I don't buy giving praise to God for suffering so true )

Very few women praise God for labour pains... the joy and praise comes later

What I thank God for is our dear women enduring such pain to bring us into the world

surely women must be stronger in resisting and bearing pain

cofty

humbled - Blame the vicitms? Why didn't 250 000 people learn how to read the signs of an impending tsunami and save their own lives?

Maybe god was watching and thought f### them they should know how to run away from a tsunami by now.

That is like throwing a rock at somebodies head and and blaming them for getting a headache. They should know how to duck FFS!

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

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