by cofty 2596 Replies latest jw experiences
Now Explain... you expect much and offer little, also where are your manners
in one simple sentence...... why this constraint? Is it ego, is it bias or is it control?
what mobius strip means to you..... why do you think they, you , humans are that important.. its a shape and we are dust in the universe
I agree S&R , but I simply wished to illustrate the tone of this thread .. now go back
and apply these same question to the topic at hand...
Caliber - please stop whinging about tone and address the topic.
Cofty did not ask for answers, he spoke about his serendipitous meeting with a previous pastor ten years on....
If you think this compares to you being confused by a shape, then you are either limited in cognition or conscience.
Either way, it is boring and a waste of more pages. Still no answrs Caliber, just endless distraction from the issue. Tsunami, suffering, dead children, dead people, mass destruction and a loving all powerful all knowing, all forgiving, all merciful space man.
caliber You are offering more meaningless analogies.
flame grilled majored at doing this and threw the towel in.
People here are trying to help you.
Now, in one simple sentence, explain how a fully just, loving, and omnipotent God would fail to act before a tsunami.
"Though it may appear confusing to us , God's long term concern for the whole human family requires him to follow
what looks like a paradox regarding Him being a loving God." ~~ Cal
Love, justice , wisdom , power must work in balance. His timetable will work out to the full benefit of all but the wicked
Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8 ΒΆ For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts
So... it's a mystery?
re Adam post 2282...
Maybe if you asked a JW or ex-JW what the Watchtower theodicy was rather than telling us what it is and getting it all wrong that would be a good start.
For JWs it's all about the issue of divine sovereignty. A fictional naked lady ate some fruit and god decided to leave humans to fend for themselves for thousands of years to prove we need him.
Is any rebuttal of this facile nonesense really necessary?
There was no Adam and Eve, no perfection, no fall. This is a fact that is not open to sensible debate so the theodicy fails at step 1.
Even if we play along with the creationist fairy story it is dishonest. The bible is full of stories of god intervening in human affairs to make life better for his buddies. JWs pray constantly for everything that they want. You can't have a deist god when there is a tsunami and a theist god when you need a new job.
Jws do not distinguish between human evil and natural evil. Leaving humans to the consequences of their own actions is one thing, booby-trapping the planet is nasty and vindictive.
The resurrection hope does not in any way negate the suffering of this life. Any theology that minimises the importance of this life is dehumanising.
JW theodicy reduces humans to unwilling pawns in god's pissing match with his nemesis.
First, he makes the assertion that "the fall" does not explain natural disasters like earthquakes/tsunamis because they have been happening for millions of years. What evidence do we have of that? - Agpo
The evidence is the Himalayas. They are 70 million years old and they are one of the youngest mountain ranges on the planet.
Theology we can debate - facts are not up for discussion.
The idea that God should stop a tsunami is thus no more logical than suggesting that he should have prevented us from suffering the effects of imperfection. It all falls under the same aegis of "consequences of man's decision to rule himself".
So why petitionary prayer?
Flamegrilled - Where are you? Just in case you missed the invitation.
You assert that there must be a reason why god allowed the tsunami. Apparently this reason is a mystery to believers and unbelievers alike. However you assert that since you know there is an omnipotent and loving god, this information must exist.
We have reached a point where the only sensible thing to do next is for you to tell us how you know such a deity exists.
On the one hand we have unassailable facts about the reality of human suffering.
So what facts can you offer that are so compelling, that any reasonable person should deny the obvious implications of the Asian tsunami?
Take as many words as you need and I will not criticise your tone or methods of explaining your case.
You have had numerous requests to present your case, the stage is yours..........
While we wait in vain for Flamegrilled - or any believer to provide a fuller answer - please could we offer further refutations to Watchtower theodicy? I will add it to the summary.
