Cofty, no offense, but I'm not wasting any more time on this thread (as flamegrilled seemingly decided not to do), since you've shown a willingness to flip-flop (AKA moving goalposts) as it suits your purposes, arguably right up there amongst the worst theist offenders (and I was willing to cut them some slack for them, but you? You know better, and it's hard to imagine it's not intentional....). Adam
Mainly I was busy, but I was also not in a hurry to remain engaged for the reasons you've given Adam, and more. I lost count of the number of times Cofty misquoted me, or stated that I said things that I didn't. That starts to get ridiculous.
Cofty wants me to lay out my beliefs, but he wants to define the paramenters for me to do that. At the same time he was quick to say of himself ...
We are not discussing my spiritual journey here. If you want to start a new thread on the topic carry on.
Well that's true of me too. I am not about to spend time laying out a complete belief system to someone who has already demonstrated that they will not hesitate to rehash my words in any way that suits them, or simply add things I didn't say. Also, I have seen what happens to people who lay out their belief system in this discussion.
As far as S&R's comments about death being a punishment, death is simply a withdrawing of the gift of life. In your atheistic world death is the default anyway, so why kick up such a righteous fuss against God if he exists?
Your whole rant is based on the premise that if God exists he must be cruel for allowing, or even applying, death. But if death is the default then why would you not be grateful for the chance of life?
If the ultimate purpose is to have beings of free will that choose to adhere to a moral standard set by God for the benefit of all, then who is to say that God is presently doing somethng wrong, either through action or inaction? Several analogies spring to mind, but since this discussion suffers from "analogy allergy" I won't bother.
How do you give a being free will, and ensure that he will not misuse it? In isolation it doesn't much matter, but if you are creating a society of such beings then it obviously does. I don't know the way to do it, and neither do you.
If intervention in natural disasters at this time is counter to God's ultimate purpose for his creation then I am prepared to accept that there is good reason for that.