The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty 2596 Replies latest jw experiences

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  humbled

  Re words:The Christians sprouted from Judaism. the Jews evolved a god who was el shaddai, almighty--

  Christians cannot now define god as less than Almighty.

  T he grandiosity of the claim to this wealth of power has had to grow larger and larger with the centuries. the bankroll of power has to cover the armies, legions and continents of suffering and dead(but only the ones who knew him, only the faithful) that He is supposed to restore.

  The Christ that has been conjured out of Jesus the carpenter has to be resurrected in power and majesty as a vital part of the sacred secret--"You all have to wait a little while longer for--are you ready???!!!--an INVISIBLE RESTITUTION. In a twinkling of an eye."

  My point--Christian theism has a God that cannot be bothered with love anymore. Power is more neccesary in the definition. When he restores, resurrects--- then you get to feel the love--not until.

  Sorry to ramble. Trying this stuff out. It seems like one could throw the word GOD out if he isn't there. but what is left seems to be a sense, a sense that love does make life coherent. Where does that come from--And is there a word I don't know for that?
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  flamegrilled

  The snag is that the bible portrays this god as unloving and vengeful. The Gladiator

  I simply disagree of course.

  I don't think it's difficult for someone who knows their Bible to cherry pick passages to present God in this way. But it is not a fair or accurate reflection of God as presented in the Bible as a whole.

  The Watchtower Society's, with all its faults, does at least have answers as to why the Christian god acts as it does, why it does not intervene in disasters, and what it wants from humans. You have typed so many words, yet arrived nowhere.

  I find the WT answers to be incomplete. Therefore as a logical argument to theism I don't choose to use them. As far as where I've personally arrived you have no way of knowing since that was not what this thread was about. I simply have pointed out the logical flaws in Cofty's assertions. If I turn this thread into why I personally believe in the God of the Bible then I would (rightly) be accused of taking the thread off-topic.
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  humbled

  Sure, everyone knows what's right and wrong. It's just that most of us tend to flinch or run under fire in the real world. People often don't behave well when put to the test.

  I have no brief for religion teaching morals. In fact, the very notion of being "saved" in church parlance is more to do with being saved from having to actually be loving and just to get heaven's reward.
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  jgnat

  Religion is too pervasive to be a glitch in human nature. Like many useful tools, it is perhaps better used as a plowshare than a club. I've started Haidt's book "The Righteous Mind - Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion". Simon, you will be happy to note that Haidt encourages more discussion about religion and politics. After all, they are subjects ripe with passion. A quote from Haidt's introduction, "I want to show you that an obsession with righteousness (leading inevitably to self-righteousness) is the normal human condition....People bind themselves into political teams that share moral narratives. Once they accept a particular narrative, they become blind to alternative moral worlds...My hope is that this book will make conversations about morality, politics, and religion more common, more civil, and more fun, even in mixed company."
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  Simon

  I don't think it's difficult for someone who knows their Bible to cherry pick passages to present God in this way. But it is not a fair or accurate reflection of God as presented in the Bible as a whole.

  No, the problem is that it's difficult for people like you to try and claim that god is consistently loving when most of the bible clearly describes a phsycotic xenophobic murdering monster. The plot line changes in the appendix with the whole 'be loving' message which seems like an afterthought - clearly a later invention that gained more traction.

  Now most theists cherry pick verses very carefully out of the OT becuase much of it is an embarrassment to their faith and doesn't correlate with their beliefs but they can't unshackle themself from that fact that is supposedly THEIR god's writing about THEIR god.
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  Simon

  People bind themselves into political teams that share moral narratives. Once they accept a particular narrative, they become blind to alternative moral worlds...My hope is that this book will make conversations about morality, politics, and religion more common, more civil, and more fun, even in mixed company.

  I think that is true.

  Until you have completely abandoned a religious belief system or a political outlook you can never really recognise how blind you can be to reason.

  There is no basis for anyone to have a strong and unshakeable faith, anyone who does is by definition closed minded and unreasoning IMO.
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  jgnat

  But, religion does serve a binding purpose. Which is also part of Haidt's book.
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  KateWild

  There is no basis for anyone to have a strong and unshakeable faith, anyone who does is by definition closed minded and unreasoning IMO.- Simon

  In fact it can also be said..................

  
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  THE GLADIATOR

  flamegrilled “If I turn this thread into why I personally believe in the God of the Bible then I would (rightly) be accused of taking the thread off-topic.”

  Most of your evasive posts appear to be an attempt to take the thread off-topic. Were you to explain why you personally believe in the God of the Bible and how you justify his lack of action regarding the tsunami in question, you would be spot on topic.

  PS: Simon has pointed out the error in your view of how the bible portrays the Israelite/Christian god.
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  flamegrilled

  Most of your evasive posts appear to be an attempt to take the thread off-topic.

  Well an unbiased reader can be the judge of that.

  PS: Simon has pointed out the error in your view of how the bible portrays the Israelite/Christian god.

  You mean where he says the bible describes a ...

  phsycotic xenophobic murdering monster.

  It's just Hitchens/Harris rhetoric with added vitriol. Again, an unbiased reader of the Bible can easily see for themselves that it's not the case.