Yes gods problem. I also thought it was pretty good, but i think there was some writers fatique on ehrmans part. I will check out the lecture, but i have about 8 hours of lectures on my listening-list.
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty 2596 Replies latest jw experiences
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cofty
I need to find some new ones to download. I have listened to everything on my smartphone. Any links welcome.
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bohm
Currently i am listening to robert prices genesis study which is quite entertaining.
have you tried hitchens collected articles? Thats something which benefits from being read out loud.
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cofty
Thanks do you have a link for Hitchen's articles?
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bohm
This link is supposedly free if you sign up for free membership: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Arguably-Unabridged/dp/B008PEGICC/ref=tmm_aud_title_0
Actually i would really recommend bertrand rusells a history of western philosophy. not an easy listen but very rewarding. it is surprising how funny he is, i laughed out loud several times when he described the early popes, christian thinkers and scholastics.
also it is very educational.. Many hundreds of pages with very high information content. He give his oppinion on all the major thinkers and it is really quite amazing to see an analytic mind like his tear through someone like nietzche or russau, it is just a complete other level of thought than i am used to or capable of.
i would have loved to see him in a conversation format with wlc on kallam. i imagine he would have given wlc the most epic bitchslapping in recent history and been a complete gentleman about it.
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caliber
Welcome back Caliber.
thanks cofty however....
I'm not feeling warm and fuzzy ...... having tecnixcal problems .... technical I mean
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cofty
Thanks Bohm
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humbled
Job is only a dark window into how Hebrews before the exile looked at disasters falling on good people. But it is my best touchstone with reality in the OT.
The OT promoted a "fear of the Lord". It was a contract for him to take care of you. The Mosaic covenant told you how to do right and prosper --he protected your borders, your health, your offspring.Do wrong and the sky became a bronze bowl --dry, drought, and you were invaded.
But the book of Job--some say is the oldest book of the OT--I value because whether there was or wasn't this actual man and real story, the book made the cut into the OT/Tanak because,often enough, people opened their eyes and admitted that even when they did not fail God-- he failed them. The book of job let them express the dark feelings of God being absent in their suffering.
Job talks straight--he wants to see God in court.
But the OT has no answer, there is no honest answer for disaster. Some OT writers flogged the Jews saying their sins brought disasters down from heaven in just the same way some Christian leaders do today.
Jesus walked into a void in an occupied land and talked about God being good and loving sinners.
But they already new this from Job: God let it rain on the Just and the Wicked both--no different
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cofty
Some OT writers flogged the Jews saying their sins brought disasters down from heaven in just the same way some Christian leaders do today. - Humbled
I would go furher and say that was the only opinion in the pre-exile OT.
When they return from Babylon the Jews bring back the idea of a devil which they borrowed from the dualism of the Zoroastrian religion.
In the pre-exile text " the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he caused David to harm them by taking a census" - 2Sam 24:1 and 75 000 are killed by Yahweh in a plague.
But when the story is rewritten after the exile, " the anger of the Lord burned against Israel, and he caused David to harm them by taking a census".
So now god has an alter-ego who can be blamed for all the bad stuff. In this context we get the prologue to Job where humans become a pawn in god's crap game with his new nemesis.
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OnTheWayOut
I am not going to follow this entire thread, but from page 72, Tec said:
I told you where I get my understanding Snare. From the Spirit. I know you cannot accept that. But I cannot do anything about that.That shows that this person leaves no room for proper discussion. "I am right and I know I am right because Jesus said so."
Cofty's summary on page 74 (post 10801) nicely demonstrates how such discussions can take place. I don't believe that people with faith will be bullied off of JWN as suggested here.
IT's okay to disagree and state why, but persisting with a deluded "vision" argument isn't serving anyone. Good luck to Tec/AGuest/ or whoever you really are. Everyone here knows you will be back in some new identity or are already entrenched in other JWN characters that you can slowly cause to be more active here. I don't believe you believe your own bullshit, but like was said- you need help.
I am sure I went a bit off topic. I suggest we end this as it will cause the further discussions here to miss the point of the topic.