Who are the real WT puppet masters ?

by cookiemaster 82 Replies latest jw experiences

  • redvip2000
    redvip2000

    Their business model is broken. They are getting out of the printing business and they are selling real estate.

    Thats silly!!. Their business model is not broken at all. They don't rely on the public to accept of purchase any product, so their product is not all that important. They could be making cassette tapes for all they care, since the money is coming from the sales people (publishers)

    So donations are guaranteed, even if the magazines are thrown in the garbage.

    I also don't think they are making $2 billion. My guess would be between $500 mil and $ 1 billion even though this year will be more from the real estate deals.

    The Watchtower society is a cash rich organization because their overhead is minimal. They put the burden on the congregations to pay for almost everything, and i'm sure a good percentage of their revenue is coming from investments at this point.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    flipper, much of your last post is passionate and inarguable, but orthogonal to my remarks. I don't deny that the end result of WT teaching could be considered criminal activity. "Ignorance of the law is not an excuse." Whatever their reasons, the Society has certainly done some terrible things, even if we don't agree on their motivations.

    I do want to reply to your response to my statement about children in the ancient world because you seemed incredulous. You may not be familiar with the fact that mortality rates for children/infants throughout most of human history were between 20% and 50% (they were still at 15% in the 1950s, worldwide). It simply was not possible to get too attached to your children while they were very young because it would tear you apart as you lost more and more of them. (one source)

    Some cultures had a habit of not naming their children for a while after birth, or not believing that they even had a soul for 2-3 months afer birth. Thus, child sacrifice was not nearly as horrible to the ancients as it would be to us, or else they would have abolished it. No one was holding a gun (sword?) to anyone's head. As I said, the sacrifices were made in fear of a capricious environment, to appease the gods, and were considered a necessary measure.

    "I defiled them through their gifts--the sacrifice of every firstborn--that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD." -- Ezekiel 20:26

    --------------

    Answer me this Apogophos- When the WT Society CHANGED their blood transfusion policies to allow " blood fractions " - WHO was held liable criminally for the 50 to 60 years of TOTAL no blood transfusions allowed in which many thousands of JW's by being " obedient " were led to their deaths or their children died by following WT Society directions on no blood allowed ?

    As I stated in the last paragraph of my post on 12/31, this is one of the most damning parts of the Society's history. That being said, I don't know if the fractions that are now allowed were available throughout all those decades. But I did acknowledge that making a partial change to allow only fractions indicates a lack of sincerity on their part (either blood is sacred, whether partial or whole, or it's not!).

    However, I think that the later change in the teaching has no bearing on the sincerity that the leaders of the Watchtower may have had at the time of its introduction. Whether it was originally an honest mistake or a knowing, incredibly evil scheme, the end result is that the modern leadership realized the teaching needed to go, and made that change in 2000. I appreciate what you're saying about the cost in human life, and it's tragic, but your response is still orthogonal to the actual issue at hand. The discussion was on the subject of what is behind the decisions the Society makes, not whether their teachings are wrong and harmful.

  • Socrateswannabe
    Socrateswannabe

    Apognophos said: Though I wonder, if the changes have always been in reaction to something practical, what purpose did the blood teaching serve?

    In order to remain viable, a cult or a totalitarian regime must create a enemy for itself. The menace of an enemy causes its members to band tightly together and stick close to the organization's heirarchy for protection, thus strengthening the regime. Hitler realized this, and it's possible that the GB understood the concept early on, as well. If you look at WT doctrine, it is formulated to piss people off--to create hatred toward itself and its members. The Witnesses won't fight for their country, they won't celebrate revered holy days, they let their children die before submitting to blood transfusions, etc, etc, ad nauseam. So what purpose would the WT religion serve if it was conformist? No purpose at all and it would have ceased to exist decades ago. An earlier poster said no blood and other such doctrine supports the WT brand, and that is accurate. The "brand" creates cohesion and helps the organization perpeteuate itself.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    (Apologies in advance for this long post!)

    True, you and DNCall have an interesting suggestion there. I definitely think that Rutherford created an environment of separatism, that is, he wanted to remove the religion as much as possible from mainstream Christianity. I don't know what his motivation was, but he was the one, I believe, who coined the term "religion is a snare and a racket", thus making it clear that the JWs were not a mere "religion", simply "the truth".

    Every orthodox term in the book was rejected from the JW vocabulary, to the point that Witnesses to this day refuse to let themselves be described by any typical labels besides "Christian", no matter how accurate they are. "Millennialist", "fundamentalist", and "creationist" are all accurate but the average JW would deny that they apply, out of a kneejerk reaction, because they like to imagine that they're special, one of a kind. A label, after all, is something that would allow them to be lumped in with other religions.

    In addition to the points you mentioned, Socrateswannabe, Rutherford also went out of his way to attack the Catholics and draw their ire. While the blood teaching went into effect under Knorr, AFAIK, this was not long after Rutherford's time and I imagine the climate that he had created was still fully in effect at that time. So you might be right that there was a desire there to create the antiestablishment "brand" of the Witnesses.

    Was this done insincerely, like an advertising agency would do? I hesitate on this point. I think it was more like going with what worked. People were attracted by the religion's differentness, their unconventional teachings like the paradise earth. Remember, the two-class, great-crowd-on-earth teaching was a defensive maneuver to explain why the JWs were getting uncomfortably close to 144,000 in number. But it worked; people were intrigued by this different way of reading the Bible (that is, cherry-picking the Bible).

    As you indicated, Socrates, and in line with my earlier comments about viewing organizations as organisms, we know that life expands and adapts to fill all available niches. The Watchtower's niche was basically "ultimate contrarianism". Do the opposite of what everyone else is doing. I think the Society did this by unleashing Fred Franz, who worked out new directions in theology through his whimsical, arcane Bible interpretations, and they simply trusted that he would lead them in the right direction, the "different" direction.

    (Read Terry's last post on this page, with a quote from R. Franz that F. Franz even made Knorr uncomfortable with the way he prioritized his Bible interpretation over things like consistent teaching. Fred Franz was as sincere as they came.)

    I guess that, absent any Machiavellian conspiracy theories that can actually be proven true, we could say that this is the closest thing to an answer to cookiemaster's question. The organization's main goal is to keep going -- even though they're largely a stranger in a strange land these days, what with doctrine based on prophecies made in the 1800s, and depending on information control in a world where that control is becoming harder and harder to maintain.

    Recently, sometimes I've felt like the GB knows that the contrarian business isn't going to work any longer and they need to come back into the fold of mainstream Christianity. For instance, note the addition of the KJV and other Bibles into the JW Library mobile app. I remember a poster here claiming (though this is very much hearsay) that a GB member once said privately that he wished they could pretty much throw out the WT doctrine and start over because it was so flawed. It could be that they've decided to slowly inch back into a position that is more tenable for the long term by homogenizing gradually, moving further and further from Rutherford's militant antiestablishmentarianism.

    The unpleasant alternative is that the GB will feel threatened and move towards an extreme, pushing the Witnesses to seclude themselves further and further. A point in support of this theory is the ominous sentence from a recent WT that has been much repeated here, about following the directions of the slave even if they appear unsound. However, a line like that could be preparation for anything, including an announcement pertaining to cutbacks in "theocratic activities".

    No matter how we look at the Society, we should all be able to agree on one thing: the Society is concerned about its future. 100 years have almost passed since Jesus' supposed enthronment, the generation that saw it is dead, and the GB has bought no more than 20 years before the next D-Day with the new overlapping generations doctrine. They've cut down on everything -- meetings, literature, and more. Now they're holding more and more district conventions in assembly halls rather than renting a large facility.

    Like a cornered animal, the org. might become more desperate, though I think if they become more extreme they will shed a lot of followers. (Some here have even suggested that they want to shrink the org. to a more manageable size, though I think this is overestimating their intelligence.) Then again, the key to their survival might just be to become blander and more conforming. This would mean dropping the shunning practice, and maybe the blood teaching, and in 20 years, probably 1914 too.

    As some here have predicted, the Society may become more and more of a shadow of its former self, eventually ending up as a web site run out of Warwick. While it can still keep running on fumes more or less perpetually, membership and growth will never be what it used to be.

  • Socrateswannabe
    Socrateswannabe

    Apognophos, I see your point. None of us can know the motivation of the GB now or in the early times, when much of the JW doctrine was formulated. And the reference to Hitler was not meant to paint the GB with the same brush as the Nazis. They simply understood the same, time-proven formula--no one clings to an organization without some sort of conflict being present, and organizations that understand that theory actually create the conflict, saving themselves from the uncertainty of fate. Yet I'm sure you're right--they just went with what worked. I probably wouldn't characterize their intent as malicious, rather more calculating than anything else.

  • Apognophos
    Apognophos

    Actually, if you look back a couple pages, I brought up Hitler too :-) And after all, Rutherford was the one who wrote a letter of kinship to Hitler. I believe it was Terry who suggested here a while ago that Rutherford was jealous of der Füehrer's Third Reich and wanted one of his own. So not only have people made the comparison in the past, but even the suggestion that one learned from the other (and not necessarily in one direction only!).

  • yadda yadda 2
    yadda yadda 2

    Fascinating thread. Absolutely agree with your last post Flipper as to responsibility and culpability, moderated by Apognophobo's valuable thoughts.

    There is a lot of supposition and conjecture though. Taking a more evidence-based approach, I would conclude the following:

    The recent new light that only the GB is the 'faithful and discreet slave' to the exclusion of all other 'anointed' shows unequivocally that the GB is first and foremost motivated by reinforcing and protecting their own collective power. I see this new light as final fulfillment of what Ray Franz wrote about in ISOCF in the chapter 'The Recurring Pattern,' where the historical trend is for religious leaderships to eventually morph into an authoritarian ecclesiastical body, which was the very thing that C T Russell tried to get away from when he started the whole thing way back when.

    Likewise, the latest 'overlapping generation', which is so scripturally and secularly unconvincing and unreasonable, clearly demonstrates that the Governing Body is more interested in perpetuating it's own interpretive and creedal power base than admitting error. The sheer arrogance of putting this nonsense over as 'new light' shows that, like never before, they are quite prepared to bend and twist any scripture to suit their own self-serving needs rather than admit error.

    Similarly, the latest January 2014 study articles heralding 100 years of Jesus invisible rule shows they remain utterly spellbound by Russell's chronology. One or two members may harbour secret doubts about it (as Ray Franz noted in ISOCF) but overall they stand by it hook line and sinker. These articles are almost taunting doubting JW's. The Society has put a stake in the ground, making it very clear that they have no intention of changing the teaching in the forseeable future.

    As for the blood policy, the gradual move away from the very hardline stance to now allow for blood fractions (where do blood fractions come from but donated blood?) probably shows they secretly would like to dump the doctrine. They have pushed this as far as they can without actually abandoning it or making it a conscience matter. These changes are suggestive of the possibility of eventually making it a conscience matter.

    The litigation and shocking bad publicity with the resultant rapid modifications of the paedophile policy shows clearly they are running scared on this and will urgently adapt to legal pressures. This also is a positive trend but a lot seems to be riding on the outcome of the Conti case. It is clear they will not budge unless absolutely cornered. But the fact they are so willing to abandon any feasible scriptural meaning of 'generation' proves that in a flash they can dream up 'new light' on anything, and you can be sure they will do that with the 'two witness' rule if cornered. For instance, overnight they could declare that behind the scriptural requirement for 'two witnesses' is the broader Biblical principle of the need to establish sufficient evidence to prove guilt, and overnight dump the literal requirement for 'two (human) witnesses' to child abuse for congregational discipline to occur.

    The recent hardline reconfirmations of the shunning policy demonstrate there is not going to be any change whatsoever with this in the foreseeable future.

    There is a clear pattern that they are reacting and adapting to legal and financial pressures, but very gradually. There is also a clear pattern of retrenchment and rationalisation with reducing literature production and cutting back operational costs. But there is also a clear pattern of great reluctance to move from the established body of doctrine and interpretation, doing so only incrementally at best. The analogy of the organisation being an organism that adapts to external pressures and is foremost devoted to it's own survival at all costs is completely appropriate.

    It is the concept of the 'organisation' itself being the earthly part of the kingdom of God that is the over-arching ideological concept driving the GB as puppet-masters. I believe the GB genuinely believes this, and that by perpetuating the organisation's growth and survival above all else they believe they are genuinely finding approval in God's eyes. This idealisation and idolisation of the organisation is very clear. They see themselves as literally those to whom the master entrusted talents and that their mission is to increase these (organisational) talents and hand them over to the master on his return. So everything must be subjugated to the organisation's survival and flourishing, even at the cost of individual's lives. The GB's modus operandi is first and foremost to serve and perpetuate the long-term interests of the organisation as the collective Christian congregation holding Christ's talents.

  • yadda yadda 2
    yadda yadda 2

    ps - I am not comparing the ridiculous 'generation' interpretation to my example of potentially changing the scriptural understanding on the requirement for two witnesses. My example of the Bibilical principle of requiring sufficient evidence to establish guilt rather than literally requiring 'two witnesses' is really the proper Christian view.

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    I haven't read all the posts yet, but I wanted to chime in on an observation before I forget it.

    During my time in Bethel during the 90s, I thought the GB were pulling the strings. There were other heavies, and some of the GB had more power than others. And I was under the impression that as the money came in, it went to printing and construction. For years the yearbooks had pictures and stories of expansive and expensive construction projects throughout the world. And this was mostly after everything had gone to the donation arrangement. The Iron Curtain fell and "da troof" started to spread throughout Eastern Europe, also an expensive endeavor. With this material abundance in the organization, it was one of the ways I was blinded to TTATT. "This has to be Gawd's organization."

    I can't recall exactly when it would have been, but things changed. GB 1.0 was getting older and maybe only Losch had been added. There was talk of expansion in Brooklyn, Patterson, and development of property upstate. But only Wallkill expanded, in their patchwork of here-and-there buildings with no cohesive design. Repair projects on foreign branches continued, but nothing new after the flurry of previous construction. I'm thinking it was around the time that WT rolled out a bunch of other corporate entities to reduce their liability that something really changed.

    Talk increased of the need to downsize to save money. Seemed strange to me that Gawd was suddenly having a hard time paying the bills. Cuts began. Projects cancelled. One Awake cut per month. And still the need for more cuts. It was really sounding strange to me. Then GB 2.0 outnumbers the few surviving GB 1.0. Massive layoff of Bethelites along with the extensive sale of properties. From where they were just 15 years ago, they should now be absolutely rolling in cash. The number of JWs has increased, WT expenses have decreased, hundreds of millions of dollars of property sold.

    We can only speculate, because WT is certainly never going to open the books of their numerous corporations for anybody. Of GB 2.0, you've got a few nutters, several control freaks, none of them bright enough to pull off a "great caper." I would suspect that there is a huge amount of waste because most of the guys leading this cult aren't that bright, there's no accountability, and it isn't there money.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Thanks to all for insights and thoughts, Mr Flipper especially, that post is a keeper !

    I think we have reached a consensus that seems to suggest the GB is mostly deluded, and yet the methods they use are poweful evidence that they are aware that the Image they present to the R&F is not a true one. It is obvious that having no real education or expertise in any real life skills the GB relies on advice from experts that they hire, be they Legal, Financial or Media types.

    These advisors obviously have a huge amount of influence, and to what extent, if they are JW's, they are deluded themselves we cannot know, but they must, of necessity be pulling strings.

    And just as the unaccountable power afforded the GB has corrupted, the hidden power of these guys must be even more corrupting.

    All of this makes for a most suspect Organization.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit