Who are the real WT puppet masters ?

by cookiemaster 82 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  Phizzy

  When you observe in their writing deliberate half-truths, quote mining, downright lies and blatant use of mind control techniques you would be naive in the extreme to think that this is the product of several idiot-savants, who accidently used the methods, over the many many decades it has gone on.

  They know what they are doing, they pass on the skills to the new boys, who also are aware of what they are doing.

  If they were really 100 % believers it would simply not occur to them to use such methods. They would not feel the need.

  This is not to say they are all Atheists just in it for the money, it isn't quite that simple or that bad. They are like the Public Relation guys for large Corporations and Banks, they cannot just come out with the truth, they have to hide things, they have to protect their employer.

  Such people may still believe in the intrinsic value and worth of the Corporation they represent, but realise they have to give a Public Image that looks good.

  The GB and Writing are like that, but they are aware that what they do is far removed from being open and honest, which surely something called the "Truth" should be ?
• 

  AndDontCallMeShirley

  The GB and Writing are like that, but they are aware that what they do is far removed from being open and honest, which surely something called the "Truth" should be ?

  They are just "tacking"....
• 

  Apognophos

  I think we're basically in agreement, Phizzy, or else we only disagree by a shade.

  I will say that quote-mining can occur as a result of a selection bias due to a desire to only see what supports your own view. Pierre* does it all the time on this forum. Do you think he's running a scam trying to fool people into becoming Christians? I think he's quite genuine, and anyway he doesn't profit from people agreeing with him. He's just afraid to see something that disproves his viewpoint, so when he reads a lengthy article with technical details on, say, an evolution experiment, he will highlight a single sentence from it that indicates uncertainty about one element of the experiment and say, "I rest my case".

  This is how the Society works too; a scientist says, "It's hard to believe that this could happen by chance." He then goes on to say, "But it seems that it did, and here's how it could have happened." But for someone desperate enough to believe, only the first statement, "It's hard to believe", lodged in their mind. The rest is just wah-wah-wah**, or an attempt by the scientist to justify an unwillingness to believe in God. If you believe that 'Satan blinds the minds of the unbelievers', then you can only trust them when they admit doubt of Satan's deceptions.

  You can understand how that mental process works, right? I'm pretty sure we all engaged in this as JWs until we finally gave in to the surmounting evidence. If we worked at Bethel and were extra good at it, we could have gotten a job right there in the Writing Department....

  *Names have been changed.

  **See Charlie Brown's teacher:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss2hULhXf04
• 

  flipper

  COOKIEMASTER- Very excellent thread by you ! It definitely stirs up conversation and ideas to be discussed. Good job.

  APOGNOPHOS- Very interesting points you bring up. Thanks for replying to my thoughts. I do agree with you on some things in regards to possibly SOME of the GB believing in the " paradise dream " - or whatever- however the conduct of a number of GB members over the years show that some of them really ARE narcissistic and hungry for power and control over rank & file Witnesses and that the same " rules " that apply to the rank & file JW do NOT apply to the GB. Case in point : Albert Schroeders son going to college without negative fallout- yet you take a normal publisher in congregations desiring to go to college who are not MS's or elders nor are their parent- and I've heard of MANY experiences of these individuals being " marked " as " bad association " for pursuing a college education. So what gives ? The hypocrisy of an organization such as the WT Society to bombastically denounce college education at assembly talks, meeting parts, in print in their literature to the rank & file JW's - yet the leaders turn around and wink eyes at some of their relatives getting a college education reeks of double standards, hypocrisy, and downright arrogance. I do believe WT leaders do NOT apply the same standards towards themselves that they expect of 7 million JW's.

  I don't believe I missed your point regarding the legal department. You are coming from an angle that the governing body CONSIDERS ITSELF more powerful than the legal department and can overide any legal decisions WT legal makes. I am coming from the angle that NO indeed - the WT legal department DOES have more power than the governing body and will make ANY necessary financial decisions to keep the WT organization afloat IN SPITE of any resistance by ANY governing body member. In this way - the governing body members remain front men, or just visible representatives to the normal rank & file JW who LOOKS at the GB as having ultimate power, and who look at the GB as having their LIVES in their hands. How else do we explain the unwillingness of the WT Society to DISCLOSE any financial information to the rank & file JW's ? There is something seriously amiss here as there is NO accountability from WT leaders ( be it GB members OR WT corporate attorneys controlling financial affairs and information) - about WHERE individual donations actually go to in DETAIL. All that's ever said to JW's is " your donation is going to the kingdom work worldwide " and that's it ! How the hell does a typical JW donating hard earned money know FOR SURE where their donations go to ? Bottom line is - they don't. And that is one of the points I'm trying to make here- there is FAR too much transparency, secrecy, and lack of accountability to individual JW's from WT leaders to justify ANY trust in them WHATSOEVER. Case in point to prove my point : Look at what just happened recently when thousands of JW's wanted to donate DIRECTLY to the Phillipine weather disaster a month ago. Almost immediately a letter from Bethel was sent to be read at congregations stating " brothers and sisters when making donations make them to the " WORLDWIDE KINGDOM WORK " NOT for the Phillipine disaster. That way WT financial powers can use the money anyway they see fit. I rest my case on this point.

  I feel Apog that you give WAY too much leeway to the WT leaders as having good motives, just that they are duped and deceived as well. And like I mentioned at the FIRST of my post- that MAY be true for some of them, but the evidence is too damning against the WT Society to think they have pure motives involved in duping JW's out of their finances, their lives, their education - and even being guilty of directing Witnesses to not accept life saving blood transfusions thus causing deaths among Witnesses ? The leaders of this WT organization - WHOEVER that is have a hell of a lot of bloodguilt on their shoulders and a lot to answer for. I'll give no quarter to their inhumanity and barbaric tendencies. Just my take
• 

  cookiemaster

  Again, I have to declare myself very impressed with the level of engagement in this discussion from many of you. My. Apog and Mr. Phizzy you got some good ideas but I relate the most with Mr. Flipper. I do agree there's no secret initiation into the upper management but I also don't think the GB members are as believing in themselves as they appear to be. They're probably not atheists, but they're also probably somewhat realizing the reality of what they are. So much power can corrupt anyone so why wouldn't it corupt them. I don't think they believe their own doctrines, unless they're all senile.

  It's shocking how little transparency this organization has. Most of us spent years, and even decades in it and we still know so little about the inner workings of the upper management, especially concerning money. The reason I started this post wondering what their plans for the future are, is because I'm concerned how the future decisions of whomever is in charge will affect my family who are still blindly following the WT. I just fear they would ask of regular JW's something really stupid that would engager they're well being, more than usual. It sounds crazy but so is refusing a life saving blood transfusion and taking the decision to willingly die, just to follow their blood doctrine.
• 

  flipper

  Good subject for newer and exiting JW's to discuss and think about. Anybody to think about for that matter
• 

  cookiemaster

  Thank you Mr. Flipper ! It's been an honor ! I wish I could have engaged in this topic more but unfortunately I didn't have the time. Nevertheless, I think it's great we had so much engagement and exchanged so many ideas. Thank you all !
• 

  cookiemaster

  Thank you Mr. Flipper ! It's been an honor ! I wish I could have engaged in this topic more but unfortunately I didn't have the time. Nevertheless, I think it's great we had so much engagement and exchanged so many ideas. Thank you all !
• 

  Apognophos

  I feel Apog that you give WAY too much leeway to the WT leaders as having good motives, just that they are duped and deceived as well. And like I mentioned at the FIRST of my post- that MAY be true for some of them, but the evidence is too damning against the WT Society to think they have pure motives involved in duping JW's out of their finances, their lives, their education - and even being guilty of directing Witnesses to not accept life saving blood transfusions thus causing deaths among Witnesses ?

  The blood doctrine is a major aspect of the religion, yes. Does it prove malicious intent? I just have three questions for you, or anyone, to consider:

  1. Does this doctrine help the religion -- in terms of finances, membership, anything at all?

  2. Do you think the leaders were secretly taking blood after instituting this teaching?

  3. What did priests in ancient pagan religions gain from carrying out child sacrifices?
• 

  nonjwspouse

  1. The doctrine helps the oganization maintain control over members . It helps the illusion of seperating and elevating them in thier own eyes, which can be powerful motivator. It helps with the BITE technique, very much so . This in turn helps with the membership out of either grandious ideas of self, or fear. it helps with finances when the publications and talks keep coming out with "give give give... money and labor, give to the org ONLY.

  2. I believe a member of the GB might save the life of a spouse or themselves if needed with a blood transfusion. But remember, the rules keep getting changed/added to so much that it is possible now for a JW to have a transfusion ( though so many don't have a clue) . Isn't it back in writing as a "concience matter" again? It is not a disfellowshipppig offence in one country, I recall reading ( forgot which country, anyone?) , and that was legally agreed to by the WTBTS in a court of law. The industry of "bloodless medicine" was made possible by the WTBTS. It's a big industry. The leaders of the WTBTS were NGO members of the UN seceretly weren't they? They swore oaths to gain passports didn't they?

  3. Not sure what you even mean with this one. The priests gained massive power ( if they did indeeed cause this) There is no greater power that leading a parent to do such evil , because afterwards, anyone thinking it might be wrong would probablly want to commit suicide ( or murder) from the huge guilt. The longer a family member shuns another, the stronger they must be convinced in the teachings, or otherwise the cognitive diss. would drive them crazy ( or more hopefully drive them OUT). It is an ultimate investment into the organization and the teachings. The more invested, the greater the mind control.