I'm thinking of applying for reinstatement (page 4)

Cygnus

Thanks for all the responses.

First let me explain that I was up late last night after a long day, and I woke up this morning vomiting. So I don't think I was in a perfect state of mind when I authored that post.

Allow me to clear up any misunderstandings about what I posted and how I felt and apparently am feeling.

Number one, I am NOT interested in practicing JWism or being an active member of the church. I know I couldn't stomach the meetings, I could not represent myself as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in the door to door work, and I enjoy my worldly friends.

Number two, for a long time now I have insisted that it is not important to me whether god(s) exist or not. That is slowly not becoming the case. HOWEVER, I find little I can identify with in most religious venues. I have said that if I tried Christianity again I would be a Catholic, but I just can't agree with many Catholic ideals and dogmas.

Number three, JWs are my heritage. There would be no assimilation process. I know how the system works. I know how to identify with them.

Number four, I would be doing this for primarily selfish reasons. The elders would have to agree to my terms: no activity would be expected of me. My argument would be thus: Since I am no longer associating with the disfellowshipped person whom I was brought up on charges for (it has been app. 18 months), then I am no longer guilty of that charge. And since I do not practice anything else for which I should be disfellowshipped, I find no reason why I cannot be reinstated and have the shunning cease.

I know that would never work.

But I think the reason I want to write a letter and make my concerns known is that I am extremely bored right now, and the only two things that I spend my time and energies on are JW chat rooms and work. It's not healthy, and it needs to change. (And, living in Buffalo and running my own business means I only get to play golf (my real passion) 10-12 times a year.)

I won't talk about work here, but regarding JW chat rooms, lately it has been my experience that more and more people talk about things JWs dealt with 50 years ago or longer. They criticize JWs for things JWs don't even do for the most part. I believe Greg Stafford wrote his book critical of important JW teachings, about how the Great Crowd has to shoulder its own responsibility and not just tag along with the Anointed Remnant, and basically insinuate that lots of JWs have suffered needlessly because he was motivated by what he has seen, and what people have told him. While the Watchtower seems to get more and more strict, JWs are getting more and more lenient.

Getting reinstated is not the answer for me, I know that. I think what basically pisses me off is that I don't feel qualified or ambitious enough to do anything else with my life except work hard and make money.

Maybe what I need is a vacation and another week at Hyghlandyr's house.

A final note: I really appreciated seeing posts from Farkel, Lee Elder, and Methushael (!). Not that the rest of you are unimportant, but those guys were with me five years ago when I needed them on H2O, and it is good to see old friends and hear their input.

I am taking the day off today and will probably be in the Yahoo chat room if anyone wants to talk.

Farkel

Joelbear,

: I too have found nothing "better" than the philosophy and rationality of the core beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Read the Tao De Ching then.

: I do not find them intellectually corrupt. Indeed at the intellectual level they make a great deal of sense. Most of the pieces fit together logically.

You must be insane! There is absolutely nothing logical about the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses. I know logic, and dubs ain't it. If you doubt me, test me.

Farkel

joelbear

Farkel,

I can't get my thoughts down right this morning.

I consider myself more a Taoist than anything else these days.

I end up trying to reinterpret my witness beliefs as Taoist. I can't express it properly here.

I'm more of a talker than a writer.

Joel

Farkel

joelbear,

: I end up trying to reinterpret my witness beliefs as Taoist.

There is no "right" and no "wrong" in the Tao. The entire JW religion is about "right" and "wrong." Those two philosophies are about as compatable as Ewart Chitty and Sharon Stone, if you get my drift.

Farkel

Mommie Dark

Word of advice for ya Cyg: try giving up the booze before you try to make any major decisions about the cult. You might find more substance and meaning in a good AA program than at the Kingdoom Hell.

COMF

Orwellian doublethink (denial) doesn't make for refreshing REM sleep, Cyg. But do what you feel. I will remain the same friend I have been since back when you were BITT.

COMF

And, as the cock crew, those who stood before
The tavern shouted--"Open then the door!
"You know how little while we have to stay,
"And, once departed, may return no more."

joelbear

Farkel,

There was no need for you to move so directly to a personal attack on me for the way I feel and think about witnesses and how I have adapted my witness upbringing into a framework that I believe is correct for me as an individual.

Pounding at me verbally is uncalled for.

Farkel says:

There is absolutely nothing logical about the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses. I know logic, and dubs ain't it. If you doubt me, test me.

Joelbear says:

Here's an example of something I still believe is logical about witness teaching. That the soul is not immortal. Prove to me logically that the soul is immortal. Prove to me that God is a trinity. Prove to me that there is a hell where people are tormented eternally. You said absolutely nothing that Jehovahs Witnesses teach is logical. There's 3 for you to start with.

Joel

Cygnus

Joel and Farkel,

I agree with Farkel that JW beliefs are inherently illogical. That is why I could not represent such beliefs as my own. Which is why I will never be reinstated as a JW.

What I would like to do is unlearn what I have learned and just be content. That is the Taoist philosophy in a nutshell, and for a few years I have admired it from afar. I just can't make it useful or practical for me living where, when and how I do.

And, I do NOT want to get sucked into a different cult to replace the JWs where I will end up getting uncomfortable with it and ultimately rejecting it. Perry, I appreciated your post, and much of what you said is, unfortunately, true. I tried secularism and objectivism. I read Ayn Rand. I tried to be Hank Reardon. But it didn't work. However, I just can't force myself to believe that Jesus is real, that he is up there somewhere watching and caring about me.

I don't know what would make me happy right now. I'm caught between wanting freedom and wanting truth. I am realizing that the two are mutually exclusive of each other.

AjaxMan

While the Watchtower seems to get more and more strict, JWs are getting more and more lenient.

True about the Watchtower, Not True about the JWs getting more lenient.

joelbear

Cyg,

I've examined it until my head hurts.

I have come down to a couple of roots of truth.

Love works.
Live simply.
Help others when you can.
Try to enjoy life on a day to day basis.
Protect nature.

I think the rest of it is irrelevant, which doesn't keep me from getting sucked into thinking about it over and over again.

Joel

I'm thinking of applying for reinstatement

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