" the universe made itself " but---

by prologos 111 Replies latest watchtower bible


    Simon So glad you run this forum - it's all that keeps me sane and focused on reality.

  • prologos

    I thought the topic was not about "god" at all, but about

    the process of work proceeding from zero energy to a product, possibly a self-generating, self- developing product.

    I mentioned god only once, in a quoted joke from my childhood, to put that idea into, or out of perspective.

    I am intrigued to see how a process where a universe can make itself is explained by the more learned posters here.

    thank you for the opportunities.

  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    Prologos, you are as bad as Kate at this, go and watch the programs linked to, go and read some wiki articles on it etc etc.

    I said THE maths dont lie, not MY maths dont lie. The maths involved are left to experts in the field who know stuff we can only dream about knowing. The maths point the way, the hypothesis follow, hence recent shift towards dark matter and dark energy in the past 30 years as the causes for the initial formation of the galaxies and also their continued acceleration in an expanding universe.

    As an ignorant JW I always assumed and was led to believe that scientists just did a lot of guessing and assumptions in describing the universe or things like evolution and they then get presented as FACT. Turns out that wouldnt be science at all and would quickly get routed out and exposed, so it isnt like that at all. The real science stands or falls on its merits.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_wave_equation to get you started.... if you are clever you could work out the speed of light using this equation.

  • prologos

    Furious Witness, I did not formulate the title of this topic, it came from a respected poster.

    I am aware of the peer-reviw science process, and the big debate that were held last century by the best minds on competing theories, and science works, the results show it.

    I had hoped to have someone come up with focused posts to the proposed process involved.

    obviously "follow the math.", "let the redshift explaine it" ,"- dont you believe in physics?" type -of- answers are no explanations at all.

    I am a keen reader, collector even, of some of the articles & books in the last half century on these related subjects, and I am looking for the explanation, insight for the key element,

    knock-out argument that would be the ESSENTIAL for the process.

    for example: was there the energy available to fashion matter, and it's expansion into the dimensions?

    if so, whence? and the other ws.

    repeating known art does not provide the answer, did not the Maxwell equations bring in the speed of light?

  • cofty

    prologos - Are you seriously hoping to find somebody talented at explaining the mathematics of cosmology here?

    There are lots of great popular science books that tackle your questions. Lawrence Krauss "A Universe From Nothing" is one of the latest.

    I could explain in general terms how it is known that the inflation of the universe is accelerating but I couldn't explain the maths.

    Do you have a particular reason to doubt the science?

  • prologos

    cofty, I read the book you mentioned, also finished the older "At the beginning" about Cern, "Nothingness" translated from german,

    YES I do hope to gain insights here from people that are not specialists, but have digested the science results and can come up with startlingly simple , "abstract"-like language.

    Even the most convoluted math can somehow be summed up in explaining what matters.

    I am glad for every bit of insight I can glean.

    I think that better, science - finding - based arguments can be made, and will yet be made on this forum to explain how we got to this interesting stretch of time.

  • snare&racket

    Prologos, go get a physics degree and specialise in cosmology. It took my friend 4 years full time at £9,000 a year in fees. There is no short cuts to knowledge, you wont find it on s forum you fuit cake. Sorry but from your answers and questions (photons) you clearly haven't read those books, or if you have, have not understood them.

    As for answering yes to cofty re: the maths & expecting people to explain it all to you, dont be so damn cheeky, go learn for yourself, you are fortunate enough that people give the time to even discuss it or suggest reading material.

  • prologos

    s&r, correct my photon sentence.

    what did I not understand? specifically?

    with your superior level of knowledge: in your words:

    what is the most significant step in the process of a universe making itself?:

  • Twitch

    what is the most significant step in the process of a universe making itself?

    That it happened

  • frankiespeakin

    Define: "making itself" and I think therein lies the answer. The macro is on a different scale than the micro/quantum in different states also. What happened at the begining of the time dimention/bigbang 1st microsecond/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsecond and somewhere near to Plancktime/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_time

    Before PlanckTime;


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