" the universe made itself " but---

by prologos 111 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  prologos

  watching the fertilization of an ovum and subsequent cell division it appears that the new being is making itself. but:

  parents were involved, unskilled labor, time, energy.

  No THING has ever been observed to make itself, to my knowledge.

  so while the cause of the above beginning of a new entity is out of field of view of the microscope, it can be inferred. with certanty.

  The idea of any entity, never mind the universe, making itself breaks the ascending rule of cause, time, energy preceding the making,

  self-making or willed/worked.

  The fact that the first-immaterial cause is out of our field of view, is immaterial.

  How do you see this leap into self creation?
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  jgnat

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFagK5Lshlg
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  anonymouz

  Yes, it appears while aging the universe by it's material, the far older "substance" in the "nothingness" the matter of the universe is "within" has slipped off their radar.

  Yet even nothing can't simply be created from nothing, even nothing must have a Creator. LOL

  "Nothing" is actually "something".
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  snare&racket

  Prologos have you ever stood in the dark and then turned on a light?

  The photons emitted are being created from nothing, from a vaccum and are created there and then and without purpose.

  The reason you have not seen anything form from nothing is because you havent KNOWINGLY seen anything form from nothing, now you know that light photons are doing exactly that, you can watch it happen.....literally. If you don't understand photons and their formation that is YOUR unknowing.

  Why not buy some science books, its exciting stuff and you can find some more spontaneous formations!

  or dont.... reply some more maybe instead.

  snare x

  p.s. I suggest you read 'A Universe From Nothing' by Dr Krauss. Just as a heads up your concept of the formstion of something from nothing has many flawed understandings to begin with, resd the book, you csn dissgree with his opinions bit the science will be enlightening for you. For example time and space were highly probably formed after the universe so your question doesn't even make sense to the evidence.
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  snare&racket

  Anonymous,

  Define nothing..........

  Why does nothing or complex things NEED a creator? Don't you appreciate the natural laws that can form these things?

  Once you have done that, explain how even nothing needs a creator, yet an intelligent creator does not need creating just because the story says he was always around before anyone else. If your logic is right, you csn't just ignore it, just as you imply we can't you have to face the issue thst god needs a creator too by your logic.

  by the way, what do you guys think we are doing in CERN with the LHC? Do you have any idea how much of the universe and our biology we have explained WITHOUT the need of any crestor or intelligence? I was not an idiot JW, I had sn interest in science, Yet I had NO IDEA how much we can explain without a god, adding to that our gaps in the knowledge are not god shaped...
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  smiddy

  Its a cop out for theists to claim that God is from time indefinite , no beginning and no end , he has always been , without beginning and without end.

  Ok , how about matter , time , space , the physical universe ,has no beginning and no end , it has always been , it is from time indefinete , it is just in a constant state of change .

  If you can beleive that GOD who you cant see came from nothing , why cant you accept that the physical universe you can see came from nothing.

  just asking

  smiddy
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  Pondering

  If God created the universe, God must be at least as complex as the universe itself. Did this supremely complex and intelligent God come from nothing?
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  Witness My Fury

  Watch episode 1 of Wonders of Life, good old Brian explains quite a bit if you are capable of hearing ...(oooooh, get the scriptual dig).

  Download it in HD if you can find it, otherwise watch it online in crappy resolution...

  http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyktff_wonders-of-life-what-is-life_tech
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  prologos

  Cern: Accelerating counter-rotating beams of PROTONS to nearly 99.9999 % of the speed od light, then directing them to collide and thus create a small packet of pure energy, out of which emerge fundamental particles, as the dissipation expansion takes place.

  the same fundamental particles that likely appeared when the energy singularity expanded to allow matter to appear in the very early universe.

  It takes all the best minds and resources to achieve this, but the big, real show created itself?

  PHOTONS: packets of energy, wavelike particles that are emitted when Electrons change energy states in atoms. IT is this ENERGY DIFFERENCE that triggers the departure of the photon. Of course the Atom is mostly empty nothingness. but energy is not.

  Have read all the books you think of

  They do not come close to answereing the BIG question:

  the universe created itself: from what? what was the required pre-condition, the super cern.

  and multiverses kicks the can only further down the road.

  talking about switching on the light, photons and all, here is a frivolous snippet from my atheist upbringing in the 1930s:

  God said "let there be light"

  but Jesus could not find

  the switches site.

  sounds better when heard in Einstein's working language.
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  cantleave

  But are you saying god came from nothing? Not just a simple package of energy, but a highly complex, sentient creator - just popped into existence!!!