Giant thread of convince-me-not-to-be-a-theist

by DS211 243 Replies latest jw friends

  • tec
    tec

    Adamah, you are the one who takes a mishmash of various theological interpretations, and calls them true.

    I asked you to back up what you say from scripture... not theology. But you are not even consistent in that... or please provide a link to any theologian that asserts otherwise about... not handwashing... but CEREMONIAL handwashing. Do the accounts mention the lay people ceremonially washing their hands, btw... or just the priests/pharisees/teachers of the law? But besides all that... does dipping your hands in water (that others have also dipped their hands in) equal handwashing? We're not talking about soap here, or even hot water.

    Because a quick google on to what other theologians state about that passage reveals some of what I shared, and some of what is written here. Yet, you call it absurd.

    And for the second time, I never said that His power to heal did not come from God. So I do not know why you continue to go on about it. Christ never took credit for that. "Go and tell the priests how much God has done for you" Or "Go, your faith has healed you."

    Here is another passage that perhaps you overlook. Where healing had nothing to do with forgiving sins, because there was no sin TO forgive:

    "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"

    "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said 'Jesus', "but this happened so that he work of God might be displayed in his life."

    Or this from Peter (regarding a man crippled from birth):

    Acts 3:16

    By faith in the name of Jesus*, this man whom you see and know was made strong. It is Jesus'* name and the faith that comes through him that has given this complete healing to him, as you can all see.

    says something like only half of the accounts of healing involved faith of the one who was cured

    Again, I did not say faith 'of the one who was cured'. Like I previously told you that I did not say 'patient'. It was not a matter of semantics. Obviously, the faith of the Centurion allowed his servant to be healed. The faith of the phonecian woman allowed her daughter to be healed. (mind you, none of that means the patient did not also have faith, but perhaps were unable to ask themselves, and so another came in their stead)

    So what do we have from what is written?

    In ALL instances it is the power that was in Christ (given to Him by God, having come from God) that healed people.

    In most instances, it is written that it was someone's faith that allowed healing (or a miracle) and a lack of faith that prevented healing or a miracle.

    Did Christ also forgive sins? Of course He did!

    I believe that you are saying that his forgiveness of sins allowed some to be clean so that they COULD be healed? If that were true... by being part of the process in some instances (and i would still like you to put forth the scriptural backing for this claim)... faith still came first, so that according to Christ's own words... their faith had healed them.

    Because what of the blind man from birth or the cripple from birth or the woman who was bleeding and who was healed without Christ even knowing who she was, so as to forgive her sins first?

    However, consider what is also written about the process:

    Matthew 8:17

    This was to fulfill what was written by the prophet Isaiah:

    "He took up our infirmities (sicknesses) and bore (carried) our diseases."

    Something for you to consider perhaps.

    Peace to you,

    tammy

    *Jesus not being the name the Peter used; but rather Jaheshua (pronounced like Yeshua), the one who came in the name of Jah.

  • tec
    tec

    However, she's contradicting herself, since TEC has also claimed in this very thread to hear the voice of Jesus in her head, and repeatedly said Jesus' voice can be trusted as the source of "truth".

    How is there a contradiction? I stated what I ONCE did, before knowing that Christ spoke... before knowing that I could listen to His voice?

    Zound got it. Perhaps you misread, Adamah?

    Peace,

    tammy

  • DS211
    DS211

    Tammy---if we cant get to the father unless he draws us...then why are some drawn and some not? As many on this board are seeeking the truth, why are they not being drawn?

  • DS211
    DS211

    And Kate ill shoot you a PM

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    DS, Fireaway Fireaway I am bullet proof richochet Fireaway Fireaway Cos I am titanium Fireaway Fireaway shoot me down cos I wont fall Fireaway Fireaway

    Love Kate xx

  • adamah
    adamah

    TEC said-

    Adamah, you are the one who takes a mishmash of various theological interpretations, and calls them true.

    The childish 'tu quoque' argument? Really?

    (Google it, and promise me you'll NEVER commit that logical fallacy again.)

    Oh, TEC: don't shot-gun, as if hoping something sticks.

    Start by explaining the difference between non-religious and ceremonial (ritual) handwashing. Then explain how the micro-organisms know the difference (perhaps Jesus whispers in their, uh, whatever bacteria "hear" with?), and why the religious beliefs of the person who's washing their hands matters to the bacteria?

    Hint: you'll need to research the Pharasaical oral tradition of handwashing that existed in the first-century CE (and here's a hint: the Hebrew term for hand-washing is 'netilat yadayim'). Get back to me when you've done some research...

    Adam

  • Laika
    Laika

    I like that you knew this was going to be a giant thread. There must be a prophet inside of you DS.

    To answer your question see John 12:32

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    I believe in God because I want to. There is no proof either way. If evidence presents itself thet I am wrong so be it, I will change my mind.

    To qoute Einstein "Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind" I want both in my life. Kate xx

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    DS, pm'd you back the bullet richocheted. Love kate xx

  • tec
    tec

    I think you missed the point on the handwashing, Adamah. Performing the 'ritual' does not clean the hands. It is ceremonial. It does not use soap... but just water and a blessing. So that one is ceremonially clean. So why WOULD a germ be deflected by that? And so why do you insist that Christ condemned people to dying from germs, when he spoke only against the 'ceremonial' handwashing, that did not prevent germs to begin with?

    (I looked up your Netilat-Yadayim... and it is about ritual purification. If you want your hands to be clean, as in physically clean, you have to wash them before the ritual... because the ritual has nothing to do with actually cleansing your hands)

    Tammy---if we cant get to the father unless he draws us...then why are some drawn and some not? As many on this board are seeeking the truth, why are they not being drawn?

    Perhaps because some do not wish to be drawn to TRUTH. Some might wish to be drawn only to what they want to believe as truth; or what they are willing to accept; and so cannot hear the actual truth. Such as people who remain in the wts for example and love it... who do not want anything other than what their GB 'feeds' them. Same can be said of other organized religions as well.

    And some are 'hurt' also by what the wts did to 'the truth' and so to their faith IN the Truth. So that they are carrying baggage and pain, that interferes with hearing Christ and understanding the truth of God. That is their purpose... the wts and others like them... to prevent people from coming to Christ by luring them to a lie; and to destroy, if possible, the faith that some DO have if these ones attemp to leave the lie.

    But Christ is here; He is alive; He calls to all who are thirsting and all who are wishing. He (the Spirit) and the bride say, "Come! and take the free gift of the water of life."

    Remember too that Christ also said that those who seek, find; and those who knock, the door will be answered to them; those who ask, receive.

    And what Laika said!

    Peace to you both,

    tammy

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