Atheists, what is the best argument FOR God?

by bohm 85 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  adamah

  Dogon said-

  Argument by design is the best argument. All others fail miserably. I am an atheist but the argument by design has some legs that can be argued. Not saying it has solid legs but legs. You can refute the argument of the eye by showing that its not all that great of a design, and has many flaws but you can still argue it shows design.

  Unfortunately, the 'argument from design' fails, since the Abrahamic God Jehovah is highly-ignorant of "His" own designs in the Bible (eg the firmament, cosmology, climatology, let alone human anatomy: the role of the heart, kidneys, and the fact the brain isn't even mentioned in the Bible! etc).

  So God fails in His claim of being the designer (much less an "intelligent" designer) if you compare the information offered in the Bible vs the what is known via science.
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  yadda yadda 2

  Adamah, you are right, but all that necessarily disproves is that a God as described in the BIBLE exists. It doesn't disprove the existence of a non-biblical God.
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  yadda yadda 2

  It always amuses me that when we get a discussion like this, the believers have to leap to "But where did the Universe come from then?" as soon as they realise that there is no proof of god in the present.

  Well guess what believers, I don't know the origin of the universe, and it doesn't in fact matter as far as day to day life is concerned.

  The point is, even if your god, or another believers god, did create the Universe, where has he been for the last 13.8 billion years ? Not a word, not a letter,

  he is no friend of humans is he ?

  Exactly! A God that is totally non-intervening and hidden is as good as no God at all.
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  DS211

  Interesting someone said that the growth and seed, size, shale, color of bananas is evidence against creation...what about the comex, structured, organized, mathematical, and high functioning existence of not just the iniverse but organization down to the tiniest particle? Chance? Or well thought out design? .....ready GO!!!!
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  Anony Mous

  There are no good arguments, only logically faulty ones.

  If you take the argument from design - who designed the designer (it's turtles all the way down)

  Whenever you infer a god, you have basically given up the search to find what really fits in the gaps. There is a decent understanding of quantum mechanics that theorizes the beginning of a Universe from nothing and even the fine-tuning argument (the Universe we live in is the only one we can ask the question)
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  cofty

  DS211 - If you are still impressed by arguments from design you have 150 years of scientific discovery to catch up on.

  Evolution is not synonymous with chance.
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  bohm

  AM: Well, there are some arguments that are arguably worse than others. Like arguments that does not make sence logically.

  DS: Like i wrote on the first page, i consider the argument from design is the best argument for god. I would be happy to discuss why I do not consider it to be very good though, but perhaps it would be better to do so on another thread?

  To give you an idea, consider if I argued: "How do you account for the amazing complexity and ability of God? Chance?"

  Clearly something is wrong with that sort of argument...
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  adamah

  yadda yadda 2 said-

  Adamah, you are right, but all that necessarily disproves is that a God as described in the BIBLE exists. It doesn't disprove the existence of a non-biblical God.

  Which only begs the question: then wherever did you even get the idea of a God who created anything, in the first place?

  For MOST people in Western culture, that would be the Bible (unless you're assuming some other creation narrative, eg Babylonian creation myths, etc?)

  Or are you relying on the age ol' false string of assumptions that:

  1) everything appears to be made, and

  2) all 'made' things need a maker?

  (That's the old disproven Paley's argument.)
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  yadda yadda 2

  Which only begs the question: then wherever did you even get the idea of a God who created anything, in the first place?

  You must know that human beings have been worshipping 'divine' forces and entities long before they learned to read and write. If it wasn't a biblical God or Mesopotamian gods or Vedic gods it was the sun or spirits controlling the forces and cycles of nature, or whatever. It's quite a natural human instinct to feel that there is something else out there bigger than ourselves.
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  DS211

  Cofty, bohm--did you love your father (if you knew them, im sorry if you didnt)? your mum? Your cat?